Are you religious?

[damme]

What the title said.

[Tengil]

Im not.

[damme]

Me neither, I am swedish after all.

[LinnEva]

no

[CharlieM]

Ill just post here what I posted elsewhere short time ago.
The subject was some fucktard opening a multi-million dollar museum, which featured dinosaurs on the ark with noah, and humans.

The topic at the time, was the origin of morals, ethics, and how science is evil and religion is awesome....keep that in mind.



Morals come from religion.


Not true at all.
The morals we have today are available to everyone, regardless of their belief.
They are passed down from their parents, and are formalised in law.
The origin of morals is believed to of stemmed from the selfish gene, the instinct to survive.

In community based animals, it is far more likely that one who is 'moral' and 'ethical' to his common animal, will inevitably be treated better than one who is not. As a result, the chain of good deeds starts within a community, and they thrive off of a form of back scratching.

The religious elites like to proclaim it comes from scripture, however, if this were the case, then why do we not follow all moral and ethical examples written within the books of genesis, or practically anything in the old testament ?

The answer is quite a simple one.

The religions are cherry picking from the moral zeitgeist that is available to everyone, one that is continually evolving with the society it represents. As events in the world shape the communities, and societies, and more information is bought into light or a deeper understanding of how things work, the moral zeitgeist adapts and evolves with that understanding.

A great example of which would be during world wars 1 and 2, compared to the wars we fight today.

Having one million enemies killed, and friendlies killed, was a non-event. All in the name of pride, patriotism, and the end goal...victory.

Now we get outraged by a few thousand dead.

The moral ether that sustains how we govern society moves forward, as we adapt to situations that we see are either no longer necessary, or downright wrong, we change our views.

We do not stone women to death for revealing their faces in public.
We do not cut out our eyes when we are found to have cataracts in them, or due to an inner ear infection.
We do not chop the heads off of our enemies, nor do we torture them, nor seek out a supreme victory against all the enemies of God, the one true judeo-christian deity that quite a lot of people belive in.

These moral and ethical teachings, the way that society thought as a whole back when the bible was first written, is completely different to the way we are now.

The moral frame that everyone bases their decisions on in how they live their life is more of an understanding of how society best benefits from your actions, not from scripture. Well, at least thats the best running theory at the moment. It shows proof of existence within primate groups, I could go on, but I feel I'm blabbering.

Science has degraded morals quite severely. What I said before is downright correct and unfortunate. People love the freedom science gives them - it's flexible, it gives them no commitments. It's a handy 'alternative' to religion - some would say perhaps the easy way out. You get to do as you please, because you are your own person and life is all about yourself. Seriously, if it's all about survival of the fittest, and 80yrs is all we've got, why could anyone else possibly matter? Science is so much more than a theory/theories. It's a whole new philosophy with ramifications.

Science has nothing to do with how morals have 'degraded' (which is all relative to begin with). Truth, knowledge and an understanding of how this world works can never be a dangerous thing, or at the very least, a lesser danger than keeping people in constant fear of going to eternal damnation if they dare to seek answers other than are written in text by men two thousand years ago.

It is about progression of humanity. If you cannot see a place for yourself within this society without any form of afterlife, then I feel terribly sad and sorry for you. There is so much you can experience and benefit society around you, if not the experiences for just yourself, but for everyone around you.

Do you think that if graham bell took the same attitude you have, that we would have the telephone now ? Or at least, be as technologically advanced as we are in the communications sector ?

Not a chance in science.

I stand by my point. Science is dangerous. You said it yourself. It's cold hearted. I'm not saying all believers in science are cold hearted (I studied it and work in the field myself), but it sets us up for some bad answers to important moral questions.

Yes, I did say it. Science is utter bitter cold hearted. Its not here to show us how to act, merely to give us an understanding of how things work, of how the universe works, literally everything.

The place of how we are to act should not be in the hands of the dangerous, ignorance spreading religion, which seeks to suppress understanding and intellectual progression, but in the hands of philosophers. Ones who truly question the things in this world that science cannot touch, like emotions, ethics and morals. It doesn't have to be loaded to the rafters with intellectually suppressing, fear mongering rhetoric.

Religion without science is the middle ages.
Science without religion...oh boy. That would be grand.

I am one for completely ridding religion of this world, but only in so far that it is replaced with philosophy. It is a far more nurturing form of questioning those elements in our existence that science cannot.

To that end, this religious based initiative that is a means to wash away a lot of scientific work, is absolutley horrendous. Its a deperate attempt to say the least.

If youve gotten this far without skipping significant chunks of my thoughts, then I thank you for taking the time...its rare that I post so much in one thread posting.

[HooB]

I try to keep my head clear of invicible old men even tho it damns me to be a less moraly correct person, after all I am a swede

[CharlieM]

Morals and ethics do not stem from religion.
Need only read my book up there to understand why.

[HooB]

Morals and ethics do not stem from religion.
Need only read my book up there to understand why.

We know, me and damme is just mockin all the religions nutcracks that accuses scandinavia to have low moral standards becuase of the high number of athiests living here

[BLACK]

http://forzamotorsport.net/NR/rdonlyres/DDD8B633-AF03-4DB4-A49B-6FA1590A485C/8029/911Turbo_04.jpg

[Grog]

the main reason i no longer go to church is because i don't want to get up on a sunday. people believe in what works for them, i don't knock em for it

[Zelaton]

No. I was baptised a Lutheran when I was a baby, and I even went to a lutheran private school till 7th grade. But, after that I stopped going to church (my parents never forced me to go). I don't like getting up early on sundays, It's boring tbh, and it doesn't do anything for me. Last time I was in a church it was for a wedding. When I have my wedding it will not be in a church, nor will the ceremony be done by a priest.

[damme]

I don't go to religious people and tell them what to think, but too often you see religious people trying to impose their belief on others.

[Grog]

i see atheists talking down to people after they find out thier religious just as much, it's odd to see apparently intelligent people act so stupidly

[damme]

Yea, that sucks too.

[CharlieM]

i see atheists talking down to people after they find out thier religious just as much, it's odd to see apparently intelligent people act so stupidly

Athesits disbeleiving in a deity for the sake of an argument, or who are vemherently against it, are not much better than the religious that they puresecute.

The athesits I think you should be looking for are the agnostic type. I dont beleive in any deity, but the minute there is actual scientific proof of one, ill beleive in it. Until then, ill remain openly sceptical. And anything that is as hugley improbable as a deity, ill adhere more sceptisism than most other things :roll:

[Grog]

fortuneately there's not shortage of apathy amongst my friends, so when it comes to a question of faith the 'not sure' answer is always popular =P

[mono]

-7572757443479230422

[Archaos]

Yeah. I spose I am.

[Alrus]

I'm not, I respect religious people as long as they respect my decision not to believe in their god.

I have no respect for stupidly orthodox religious people, like the pope(most of obvious example I could find), those do not deserve any kind of respect, since they dont respect other people's choices.

[Talorth]

If religion = believing in something without any discernable proof. Then no, I am not.

[Victis]

All I know is God Hates Fags, and america is doomed.

FUCK FAGGOTS!

[Talorth]

Wouldnt fucking fags not solve the problem?

[MrsDemon]

I am but at the same time Im lazy

[Damarus]

Religion doesn't exist.

[Grog]

If religion = believing in something without any discernable proof. Then no, I am not.
don't make me go anti-realist on your ass

[HooB]

Religion doesn't exist.

It sure does but what the religious people belive in that things existence is more questionable

[Damarus]

No it doesn't exist, along with god, lean beef, healthy mcdonalds, smart rednecks, tall midgets and tom cruise.

[Grog]

you don't exist

[HooB]

you don't exist
Well he could be a figment of our imagination, maybe that makes him god

[BLACK]

Atheists disbelieving in a deity for the sake of an argument, or who are vemherently against it, are not much better than the religious that they persecute.

The atheists I think you should be looking for are the agnostic type. I don't believe in any deity, but the minute there is actual scientific proof of one, ill believe in it. Until then, ill remain openly skeptical. And anything that is as hugley improbable as a deity, ill adhere more skepticism than most other things :roll:


Seconded.


A ton of spelling errors for someone trying to sound smart using big words.

[Grog]

Well he could be a figment of our imagination, maybe that makes him god
wait a second... you don't exist either

[LinnEva]

Seconded.


A ton of spelling errors for someone trying to sound smart using big words.

when did anyone care about spelling here!

[HooB]

wait a second... you don't exist either

But but you're just saying that because you didn't like that wonderful spooning moment we had last night

[BLACK]

when did anyone care about spelling here!

Nobody ever cared, but since he is trying to sound smart using big big words, he might as well use correct spelling.



Oh and when did anyone ever end a question with an exclamation mark?

[Damarus]

Scepticism and sceptical are technically spelt correctly:

skep·ti·cism also scep·ti·cism

1. A doubting or questioning attitude or state of mind; dubiety. See Synonyms at uncertainty.
2. Philosophy
a)The ancient school of Pyrrho of Elis that stressed the uncertainty of our beliefs in order to oppose dogmatism.
b)The doctrine that absolute knowledge is impossible, either in a particular domain or in general.
c)A methodology based on an assumption of doubt with the aim of acquiring approximate or relative certainty.
3. Doubt or disbelief of religious tenets.

[BLACK]

You damn Aussies and your crazy spellings! D:

[Xin3]

lol, the god delusion.

Amazing, with the knowledge and tools at most peoples disposal, how so many can collectively believe in the celestial tea-pot's cousin :grin:.

I personally believe in the flying spaghetti monster. Although he is a part of our universe (and created it - either by intelligent design or some other holly method) and genuinely gives a shit about whether little jonny fucked his neighbors wife in the ass and sometimes intervenes on everyday actions (miracles), he exists outside of it (our universe) and therefore i don't have to explain how he came to be. He's divine after-all. In fact i wrote a story about it so we can all believe it and collectively congregate to pay homage to his/her/it's holiness.

The flying spaghetti monster's existence cannot be disproven, however theres nothing outside of personal experience that I can give to say he does exists, but he's still more likely to be real than the delusions of other religions like the infamous Catholic God right? (or gods - depending on how you look at the holly trinity).

Everyone in this forum knows what it feels like to be an atheist. Most of you don't believe in the flying spaghetti monster and therefore your an atheist.

Religion was a necessary part of human evolution to explain things with which early man had no explanations for and at the time it served it's purpose ...somewhat. Time to move on folks - just because religion gives you comfort doesn't make it truth, unless you want to define your existence through a lie/story/myth.

I could go on but meh. :twisted:

p.s. Richard Dawkins ; Great place to start reading if your struggling with faith/religion and can handle criticism.

[Grog]

we have no access to the noumenal world
kant > dawkins

Religion was a necessary part of human evolution to explain things with which early man had no explanations for
isn't the big bang theory just a theory?

[Grindrolas]

nice post Xin3

answer me on msn bastard

[Jadein]

I wouldn't say I'm religious ... but if that's the word you want to use ... ok. I'm a spiritual person. Yes I believe in God and OMG I believe in Jesus too ... Difference with me is ... I don't shove my belief down anyone's throat ... if someone wants to question me and find out why I believe the way I do ... they can because I am open. Otherwise I leave it alone.

[Xin3]

we have no access to the noumenal world
kant > dawkins


isn't the big bang theory just a theory?

It is, and hence it will change and grow/evolve with new information/observation, and therein lies the problem with most religions, which have all the answers and essentially have not changed. Keep in mind I'm talking mostly about people who take literal truth out of the bible/creation myths. Spirituality or living your life by a certain philosophy ; these criticisms don't really apply to you.

Ideas can change, beliefs are usually rooted much deeper in a persons mind.

Where this presents a problem in everyday life can be seen from something Bush once said, "I wouldn't really consider an atheist an American citizen even, after all isn't it one nation under God?" (not sure exactly how the quote went).

[Zelandra]

Religion has served its purpose throughout the history of civilization. We are far too advanced now to believe in such childish things. It's obsolete at this point.

[damme]

A scientific theory isn't just a theory, not like a theory in the non scientific world is just a theory.

edit: Jadein, thats what I meant with religious. Maybe I should have written theist and atheist to clarify.

[Grog]

IKeep in mind I'm talking mostly about people who take literal truth out of the bible/creation myths. Spirituality or living your life by a certain philosophy ; these criticisms don't really apply to you.
then why do you suggest we do away with religion completely?

[Xin3]

then why do you suggest we do away with religion completely?

In my opinion it serves no real purpose anymore - other than ritual/self-gratification.

Curiosity is a natural part of being human. Early man/woman with the crude tools at their disposal couldn't explain why he/she was so different from the rest of the organisms on our planet - mainly why are we self aware and why are we apparently so much smarter then other species surrounding us, and thus religion was born to explain that an intelligent supernatural being created us the way we are and all the world around us.

We don't need such explanations anymore as we now know that intelligence and self-awareness are the by-products of a long process known as evolution.
Our tools are much better now and so must our understanding of our origins evolve.

In effect we should do away with religion completely for the same reasons we no longer believe the earth is flat, or that the earth is the centre of the universe. The world that existed before woman were allowed to vote or before slavery are very different from our current picture of the world. Doing away with religion may free people in more ways than can be realized.

[MrsDemon]

I am but i dont go to church

[MrsDemon]

In my opinion it serves no real purpose anymore - other than ritual/self-gratification.

Curiosity is a natural part of being human. Early man/woman with the crude tools at their disposal couldn't explain why he/she was so different from the rest of the organisms on our planet - mainly why are we self aware and why are we apparently so much smarter then other species surrounding us, and thus religion was born to explain that an intelligent supernatural being created us the way we are and all the world around us.

We don't need such explanations anymore as we now know that intelligence and self-awareness are the by-products of a long process known as evolution.
Our tools are much better now and so must our understanding of our origins evolve.

In effect we should do away with religion completely for the same reasons we no longer believe the earth is flat, or that the earth is the centre of the universe. The world that existed before woman were allowed to vote or before slavery are very different from our current picture of the world. Doing away with religion may free people in more ways than can be realized.


See what you just said is clearly a belief in scientology. Now a person may argue that religion is more then just words written down that people pick up and believe because they aren't enlightened enough to know the world around them.

I will admit religions depending on which may have some varying factors and others may have room for the evolutionary theories.

To break down a little, To be "aware" about ones environment like, A creature evolving from one to the other and becoming something different is actually able to be the case in some religions, Christianity for example. The beginning theories conflict with evolutionary theory.

The modern people believe the universe popped out of nowhere and things broke apart and mashed together to make the world we have today, that things came into existence over a growth of millions of years such as grass, water and the first organisims.
christians believe the initial first animals and people the grass and trees were created, not saying that a lion or a bob cat walked the paths of adam and eve but similar animals walked and lived in those points.
Theorically applying the idea of evolution and christianity it would mean, Jesus is black or light brown (making his children in his image), The brown or blacks that went north to the colder climates would equal to the whites and the different groups at different locations under different location would have evoled into the asians,hispanics and so on.

I dont have a close mind but i do see both sides as having farfetched angles that require faith to believe and even though im christian and believe in it, I wont shut the other side down without a proven point.

[damme]

How many christians do actually believe in creationism?

[Xin3]

See what you just said is clearly a belief in scientology. Now a person may argue that religion is more then just words written down that people pick up and believe because they aren't enlightened enough to know the world around them.

I will admit religions depending on which may have some varying factors and others may have room for the evolutionary theories.

To break down a little, To be "aware" about ones environment like, A creature evolving from one to the other and becoming something different is actually able to be the case in some religions, Christianity for example. The beginning theories conflict with evolutionary theory.

The modern people believe the universe popped out of nowhere and things broke apart and mashed together to make the world we have today, that things came into existence over a growth of millions of years such as grass, water and the first organisims.
christians believe the initial first animals and people the grass and trees were created, not saying that a lion or a bob cat walked the paths of adam and eve but similar animals walked and lived in those points.
Theorically applying the idea of evolution and christianity it would mean, Jesus is black or light brown (making his children in his image), The brown or blacks that went north to the colder climates would equal to the whites and the different groups at different locations under different location would have evoled into the asians,hispanics and so on.

I dont have a close mind but i do see both sides as having farfetched angles that require faith to believe and even though im christian and believe in it, I wont shut the other side down without a proven point.

I see where your going with that, but I don't consider myself to be a part of any religion. I will admit i know nothing about Scientology (accept the obviousness of the name) so i can't comment on any similarities. What I do believe about science is that it has the ability to broaden or enhance our understanding of the nature of the universe.

Edit: Just read up a bit on scientology and I am definately not a scientologist lol.

[MrsDemon]

I see where your going with that, but I don't consider myself to be a part of any religion. I will admit i know nothing about Scientology (accept the obviousness of the name) so i can't comment on any similarities. What I do believe about science is that it has the ability to broaden or enhance our understanding of the nature of the universe.

Edit: Just read up a bit on scientology and I am definately not a scientologist lol.


lol

Scientology meaning

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology

[Grindrolas]

errr, Demon, the thing about Xin3's point is that there is scientific evidence backing it up, where as theres none backing up the idea of an all powerful deity. Thats where my problem, or, lack of belief lies. I need some concrete evidence to prove it. With that said, I believe theres enough evidence of Jesus' existence, but none to prove that he was the son of who he's supposed/claimed to be.

Evolution is a fact, humans are evolving right now, slowly sure, but it is happening with each new generation.

[Xin3]

net crashed before i could add this.

Also if you dig deep enough into string theory / M theory you'll inevitably come across Brane Cosmology which according to the laws that govern the movement/shape of strings predicts the existence of enormously large objects called membranes floating in higher dimensional space.

Theory goes something like this:

Essentially All matter/energy including the 4 fundamental forces (Electromagnetism-Gravity-Strong and weak nuclear forces) can be explained mathematically as the movement of infinitesimally small strands of energy across tiny curled up folds of space. We'r all used to living in a 4 dimensional world - 1.length 2.width 3.height 4.time, but this theory suggests that there may be more spacial dimensions curled up so tiny we just can't see them. it is precisely the movement of energy across these tiny curled up peices of dimensional space that cause strings to vibrate differently producing what we experience as matter/force/energy. This theory unifies all 4 forces only if we assume there are 11 dimensions of space. Everything accept gravity exists as a string with both ends attached to our membrane (our universe) accept gravity which is a closed loop which allows it to float freely between membranes or universes, which accounts for it's weakness when compared to the three other forces. This theory also predicts that collisions between membranes in higherdimensional space happen all the time which may account for the big bang - so it didn't just spontaneously happen if anything in this theory is remotely true.

[Alrus]

How many christians do actually believe in creationism?

Americans?

[MrsDemon]

I'm jack some educational points:


Hinduism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/ganesh.jpgHinduism is the most ancient religion known to the world as Sanatana Dharma. This is the only religion in the world which is also a way of life for all to follow, specially Indian's. It is a religion that gets its guidance from theVedas Upanishads Sutras Epics Granthas and Prabhandhams (http://www.divinedigest.com/hinduscript.htm). Aagama Shastra is one of them.
The Bhagavat Gita preached by Lord Krishna to Arjuna, on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, suggests various parts to reach the ultimate aim that God is one. Sanathana Dharma based on the eternal Vedas, faced many upheavals for several centuries, and could withstand the onslaught only because of its innate strength. The Vedas proclaim that God is one. The Bhakthi cult preached by various Saints "Nam Smaran" (chanting God's name) is the easiest way of reaching Him. The Hindu sees God in the form the devotee likes most.
The temples were and are places where man learnt about himself, learnt various arts like music, dance, religion, etc. The temples reveal the various manifestations of the Supreme Being installed therein.
An important factor almost universally accepted is that faith in a divine power shapes the destiny of mankind. Sanathana Dharma had famous Saints who had expounded their own specific philosophy.
Sankhya is another religion-great and ancient of our land. This religion has produced more Ascetics and Gnanis than Buddhism or Jainism. But we do not find any images in honour of those ascetics and gnanis or any literature in the form of songs or stories. We find more reference to Sankhya than Buddhism or Jainism in philosophical works.
Shri. Madhavacharya expounded Dwaita philosophy where the emphasis is on Bhakthi (devotion). He insisted that one should perform one's duties as an offering to God. Shri Madhvacharya founder of Dwaita philosophy said, "God is the continuing cause of all activities of man. The purpose of creation by the Lord is to enable individual souls to work out their salvation." He prescribed Bhakthi as the supreme method to attain God. He pleaded to lead a life of purity to enable us to meditate on the Supreme Being. Devotion and duty import meaning into human life.
Adi Shankaracharya expounded Advaita philosophy. From time immemorial, Hinduism was subjected to severe tests on account of attacks by other religions. As a result, people strayed away from the path laid by the Vedas. Whenever there was religious degeneration, God saw to it, that a spiritual personality appeared amidst mankind, to revitalize Hinduism and establish Dharma. Lord Shiva Himself manifested as Adi Shankara to reinforce the declining religion. Adi Sankaracharya's Advaita philosophy propounds of only one Supreme Being, Lord Shiva - the philosophy is known as Shaivism - he stressed that spiritual knowledge, deep devotion and detachments are necessary for reaching the goal.
Vasishtadwaita was expounded by Shri Ramanujacharya which lays emphasis on the cult devoted to the worship of Lord Vishnu, signifying the cult of Vaishnavism. To propagate the cult of Vaishnavism, God deputed Alwars who established the Truth and Reality through their Hymns called "Prabandhams". There are thousands of temples - sanctified kshetras of worship - where divine power is manifested. Every temple has a Sthala Purana, through which the significance of every temple can be learnt.
Though God is the ultimate authority to grant salvation to a devotee the method of approach to attain Moksha (salvation) can be obtained by an Acharya or Guru, the intermediary, who represents Almighty, a learned intellectual, dispels the disciples spiritual ignorance. The Acharya who initiates the disciple into spiritual bliss is the link between the individual and the Cosmic Soul. Acharyas are chosen representatives of God. It is amazing to find a majority of spiritual Saints in Hinduism had composed valuable literature- Kavyas, Prabandhas, Songs, Poems, Shlokas. Hinduism is rich in such scriptures written by the great Saints, which again shows the God's blessing on them.






Islam



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/makka.jpgThe Muslim religion - submission to God's will - is a monotheistic religion in which the Supreme Deity is Allah, and the Founder and Chief Prophet is Mohammed. Islam is also refered to as Muslimism and Mohammedanism mostly by non-Muslims.
Mohammed was an Arab born in the city of Mecca. He believed he had been sent to warn and guide people, to call them to worship God. He taught that there is only one God and that He, Mohammed, was only a messenger. Those who believe in one God and accept Mohammed as His messenger are called Muslims. The Largest Muslim communities exist in the Middle East, North Africa, Indonesia, Bangladesh, India, Pakistan and Central Asia. In Europe, Islam is the principle religion in Western Turkey and Albania.
Mohammed's preachings angered and frightened the Meccans and some even plotted to kill Mohammed. He and his followers fled to the city of Madina in 622. By 630, they returned to Mecca, victorious. The Muslims destroyed all the idols in the sacred shrine of Mecca known as Kaaba and the area around it became the most sacred Mosque. The Meccans then accepted Islam and acknowledged Mohammed as Prophet. Mecca and Madina are sacred cities of Islam. Mohammed's death in 632 brought a leadership crisis. Some elected his friend Abu Bakr as the first Caliph (successor). They became the majority - Sunni branch of Islam. Others supported Mohammed's son - in - law. These groups formed Shia or Shiite branch.
Muslims united millions of different people socially and culturally into one great empire. They encouraged learning as a part of religious duty and preserved much of the classical knowledge of the ancient world. The Muslims also built magnificent mosques and other structures - Allhambra in Spain, and the Taj Mahal in India.
The companions of Mohammed preserved the revelations (Divine Messages) that he received from God by memorizing them or writing down. They later combined them to form the Holy Book of Quran (http://www.divinedigest.com/islamscript.htm) (Koran), an Arabic word meaning "recitation". Muslims believe the Quran to be the unaltered word of God recited in Arabic to Mohammed by the Angel Gabriel.
The five pillars
A Muslim's chief religious duties are known as the Five Pillars. These are:

The profession of Faith
Prayer
Alms giving to the poor
Fasting
Pilgrimage
Prayers
Muslims can offer prayers to God (personal) at any time they wish, but there are five ritual prayers to be performed each day - at dawn, at noon, in the afternoon, in the evening, and at night fall. Before prayer, Muslims perform ritual ablutions, known as WUDU. This consists of rinsing the face, hands, and feet with clean water - as a mark of respect to God. The SALAT (ritual prayer) is performed facing the direction of Mecca. The Salat consists of reciting certain passages from the Quran in combination with special body movements. It is customary to offer a private prayed (Dua) at the end of Salat.
A crier or Muezzin announces the time for prayer by calling out the ADHAN (call to prayer). Friday noon prayer is the obligatory congregational prayer. Alms giving to the poor and needy is a duty required from every Muslim. It is called ZAKAT.
Ramadan or Ramzan
Fasting in the ninth month in the Muslim year is the Holy month of fasting. In that month, they give up eating and drinking during the daylight hours from dawn to sunset. At the end of each day, during Ramadan, Muslims break their fast at a joyful family meal. The main aim of the fast is to please God and to draw near Him.
Pilgrimage to Mecca is known as HAJJ. Muslims are requested to perform Hajj once in a lifetime. Muslims take on the pilgrims clothing IHRAM which consist of two simple lengths of unsewn white cloth, one to cover the lower half of the body and one for the upper half, worn both by rich and poor alike. Women are allowed to wear their own clothing, but they must not cover their faces, to show that all are equal. The Hajj consists of succession of rituals that include walking around the shrine of Kaaba and visiting certain sacred sites. According to historians Islam forged ahead with the help of a sword.






Buddhism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/buddha.gifBuddhism developed in India during the late 500 B.C.'s from the teachings of a prince named Siddhartha Gautama. Gautama became known as Gautama Buddha meaning 'Enlightened One'. Buddhism was partly a rebellion against certain features of Hinduism. Buddhism opposed the Hindu worship of many deites, the Hindu emphases on caste, the supernatural, and the power of the Hindu priest class.
Buddha taught that people should devote themselves to finding release from the suffering life. Through this release, people will gain Nirvana - "a state of perfect peace and happiness". To acheive this Nirvana people have to free themselves from wordly things. Buddha taught that Nirvana could be gained by following the middlepath between the extremes of severe self-denial and uncontrolled passion. As Buddha preached number of his followers increased.
Buddha made Monasticism an inseparable part of his creed. There are two orders in Buddhism - Hinayana & Mahayana. Hinayana communities have a more strict daily life and members spend much time in meditation. Mahayana communities are more active in welfare and education and are centered in Japan & China.
Buddhism had spread in to central Asia. By the end of A.D. 100's it had been introduced in China. Buddhism swept through much of China from 300's to 500s, challenging the native Chinese religions of Confucianism and Taoism, Buddhism spread to Korea and Japan.
Hinayana Buddhism is strongest in Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Srilanka, and Thailand. Mahayana Buddhists live in Japan, Korea, Mangolia, Nepal, Tibet, and scattered parts of India and Russia.
Buddha proclaimed the Four Noble Truths.
1. Life is sorrow
2. Cause for sorrow is craving.
3. Removing the cause of craving will end sorrow.
4. The way that leads to the ending of sorrow is the noble Eight-Fold path.
Buddha as Siddharta Gautama was born in Lumbini and lived in India. He is also known as Shakyamuni. Buddhists believe that there were at least six other Buddha's before Gautama Buddha and there is another one to come whose name will be Maitreya.
There are two main schools of Buddhism.
1. Theravada Buddhism
2. Triptica Buddhism. The Zen School of Buddhism. And there is Zen too, Zen is the Japanese form of "CHAN", a Chinese word meaning Meditation. The Zen school of Buddhism, originated in China, but now very widely followed in Japan & in Western countries. Their emphasis is on meditation. Buddhists believe that they can be helped to Nirvana (Enlightnment) by cosmic Buddha's (from other worlds) and Bodhisathvas. These are people who strive to become Buddhas by leading a life of virtue & wisdom.







Lamaism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/dalailama.jpgLamaism is a branch of Buddhism, mainly in Tibet. The religion recognizes two Grand Lamas. The Dalai Lama was regarded as the ruler of Tibet and the spiritual leader of Lamaism. The Tibetans revere him as a living Deity. The Panchen Lama was regarded as a leading spiritual authority. The Tibetans regarded both the Lamas as Buddha born again. When the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama died, their spirit is believed to enter the body of a baby boy. Monks search the whole country for a baby boy who was born about the same time as the death of the Lama. The boy thus selected, becomes the Lama's successor. The Chinese communists ended the authority of the Lamas after they took control of Tibet. There are several sects of Lamaism. The chief sect is Yellow Hat headed by the Dalai Lama who is now in exile in India. In the past, large number of Tibetians became monks. Every town and valley had a monastery called a "Lamassery". The then Panchen Lama died and His Holiness Dalai Lama is in exile in India. He was Awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.







Christianity



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/christ.jpg
Jesus was the founder of the Christian religion. This was from 4th century B.C. to 29th century A.D. Qualities taught & demonstrated by Jesus Christ are love, kindness & tolerance. Belief in Jesus as Christ. Religion based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus of Nazareth regarded by Christians as the Messiah prophesied in the Old Testament.
Christianity has many different orders -
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Jesuits are members of the Society of Jesus, a Roman Catholic order for men founded by Saint Ignatius Loyola in 1534.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Roman Catholicism has broad based sympathies and ideas. The Universal Christian church belieives in liberality of ideas and universality. The Pope heads Roman Catholic Church.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Protestants - Protestant Episcopal Church conforms to the practices & principles of the Church of England. Reforms under the leadership of Luther, Calvin, Wesley and other heads of protestant institutions.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif The Church of England - Basically the episcopal church of England is an Anglican Church. It is an established Church with the Episcopal sovereign as the head.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif The Church of Jesus Christ of latter Day Saint's - The members of this church are called Mormons, founded in U.S.A. in 1830, by Joseph Smith.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif All Protestant Episcopal Church are governed by Bishops.
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif The Methodist Church - This church preaches Protestant Christian teachings that developed from the Evangelistic teachings of John & Charles Wesley. http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Mormons - Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints founded in U.S.A. in 1830 by Joseph Smith. http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif The Eastern Orthodox Churches - These churches regard monasticism as an essential feature of their tradition. Practically all eastern orthodox religions follow the teachings of St.Basil. Two charachteristic features are liturgical worship (fixed form of public worship) and fasting.









Confucianism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/confucius.jpgConfucianism is a Chinese religion based on the teachings of Confucius a philosopher who died about 479 B.C. Confucianism has no organisation or clergy. It does not teach a belief in a deity or the existence of life after death. Confucianism stresses on moral and political ideas. It emphasises on respect for ancestors and Government authorities and teaches that rulers must govern according to high moral standards.
Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism have been the major religions in China. But Confucianism had the greatest impact on the Chinese society. It was the State religion of China from 100 B.C. to 1,900 A.D. Confucius's scriptures called "The Five Classics and Four Books" served as a foundation of the Chinese education system for centuries. Beginning in the 1,000s, a more philosophical approach to Confucianism, known, as "New Confucianism" became widely popular. New Confucianism also influenced Japanese moral codes and philosophy. In 1949, the Chinese communists gained control of China. The Government officially condemned Confucianism as well as other religions. As a result, most followers of Confucianism lived outside mainland China. In 1970's, however, the Communist Government relaxed its policy against religion and so, Confucianism enjoyed a revival on the mainland.









Bahaiism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/bahaiism.jpgBahais are the members of the Bahai faith. This religion was founded in the year 1863 in what is now Iraq. Bahai faith has spread to most parts of the world.
Bahais believe that God sent a series of Prophets to teach eternal moral truth and to reveal new social principles. Their prophets include such religious leaders as the ancient Hebrews, Abraham and Moses, Jesus Christ, and Mohammed. Bahais believed that the latest prophet was a Persian called Bahaullah - "Glory of God" who founded the Bahai faith. Bahaullah declared that all religions honour the same God and the highest form of worship is service to other human beings. He also taught God wants all people to form a united society based on mutual acceptance of one another. Bahaullah opposed discrimination based on age, race, or sex and he favoured a federated system of Government.
The Bahai faith grew out of Babi faith, a religious founder in Persia - (Iran), in 1844 by Sayyed Ali Muhammed, also called the BAB - "Gate". Bab predicted that soon a great Prophet would appear. The Persian government imprisoned Bahaullah and exiled him to Baghdad. In the year 1863, he proclaimed himself to be the predicted Prophet. Most of the Babis accepted the claim and became known as the Bahais. The Bahais have about 17,000 local Councils called Local Spiritual Assemblies. The International Governing Body called The Universal House of Justice meets in Haifa in Israel. The Bahai House of Worship in Wilmette, Illinois, U.S.A., is a magnificient structure. The Bahai house of worship in New Delhi stands in the shape of a huge Lotus, infact it is an architechtural marvel.





Sikhism is one of the most ancient religions of India. Believers of Sikhism are called Sikhs, (meaning disciples). Guru Nanak was the founder of Sikhism. His simple message was "work, worship and share your food with others". Guru Gobind Singh declared before his departure to the heavenly abode that Holy Granth - Guru Granth Sahib, would be the spiritual guide for Sikhs. Guru Gobind Singh made Khalsa (Sikh common wealth), a full-fledged nation and taught them to perform the noble duty of defending their motherland. Guru Gobind Singh, the last among the Gurus (1666-1708), initiated the Baptism Ceremony.

The first five Baptised Sikhs were named "Panj Pyare" which means - five beloved ones, who in turn, baptised the Guru on his request - an event unknown in the history of mankind. Guru Granth Sahib the Sikh Holy Scriptures, became the ultimate spiritual authority for the Sikhs, and "Khalsa Panth", the temple authority.
Sikhism stood for casteless and, classless society. This religion preaches that all people stand equal in society. Guru Nanak was born into a hindu family, he preached there is only one God and criticised Hindu and Muslim religious sectarianism. By the time of tenth Guru - Guru Gobind Singh, the Sikhs had to defend themselves from Muslim persecution and Guru Gobind Singh organized his followers into a military order called Khalsa which literally means "pure". Sikh men and women were initiated into the Khalsa by sharing a drink of sweetened water called "Amrit" a symbol of loyalty to God. After initiation, they are given the name Singh (Lion). The Sikhs are unique in their attire and names. In this religion, it is obligatory for all Sikh men to always have five K's. Kesh, Kirpan, Kada, Kachcha and Kanghi (long hair, small sword, iron bangle, drawer, and a comb).







Taoism, like Confucianism is a native Chinese religion. Its root's go back to the earliest history of China. However Taoism did not begin to develop as an organized religion until 100 B.C.

Taoism teaches that everyone should try to achieve two goals, happiness and immortality. The religion has many practices and ceremonies, intended to help people. They include prayer, magic, special diets, breath-control, meditation, and recitation of scriptures. Taoists also believe in astrology, fortune telling, witchcraft and communication with the spirits of the dead. Taoists worship more deities than do the followers of almost any other religion. Some deities are ancestors and others are the spirits of famous people.
Taoism borrowed heavily from Buddhism. Many Taoist deities, temples and ceremonies show the influence of Buddhism. By A.D.1000, Taoism had divided into many sects. Some of the sects withdrew from daily routine to meditate and study in Monasteries. Other sects were based in temples. The temple priests passed on their position to their children. They gained a reputation as highly skilled magicians, who could predict the future, protect believers from illness, accidents and other misfortunes. In mid 1900's, the Chinese government opposed Taoism, claiming it was based on superstition. Today, the Chinese Government permits the practice of the religion and the followers are gradually increasing in number. Taoists remain active in Chinese societies outside China. Their deities include Jade emperor who rules the Earth, Empress of Heaven, and Laozy - an ancient Chinese philosopher who is the founder of Taoism.





Zorastrianism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/zorathustra.jpgZorastrianism is an ancient religion. The Founder of Zorastrianism was the Persian Prophet Zorathustra, meaning "He of the golden light". The Greek form "Zoraster" (1200 B.C.) also knows him. Zoraster's people inhabited strips of Central Asia before moving to Persia - now Iran.
Modern scholars do not accept a traditional belief that Zoraster lived in 500 B.C. and that the Greek philosopher Pythogarus studied with him. Zorastrianism is a belief in a struggle between good and evil. He taught that there is one Eternal God "Ahura Mazda" who is Lord of Wisdom. He is wholly wise, just and good. "Angra mainyu" the spirit of evil, wholly wicked and malevolent.
Ahura Mazda called upon a number of lesser good spirits called the to destroy this evil. Yazatas - chief among them were six moral divinities, immortal beings of Great Goodness. There were also Gods from ancient Persian religions such as Mithua. The Yazatas had special functions such as justice, devotion and wholeness. The evil spirit Angara Mainyu was aided by a host of demons. Followers of Zorastrianism believed that good will eventually triumph over evil and that the last day will come.
Zoraster was the first founder of a world religion to prophesy and end of time and of earthly life. Zorastrians believe that the souls of the dead will be reunited with their resurrected bodies on the last day. The dead man and the living will undergo the Last Judgement. The wicked will be destroyed body and soul but the just people will be unharmed.
Observances
Zoraster instructed his followers to pray in the prescence of fire. Fire was a symbol of order and justice. An earthly fire can represent fire, by the Sun, or by the Moon. Zorastrians must pray five times every 24 hours - sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight and dawn. They pray standing while untying and tying a sacred cord tied around their waist. There are seven communal festivals.
The most important is No Ruz or Navroz - the Parsi New Year new day observed at the spring of Equinox. People took special care about the purity of fire, water and earth. They disposed of the dead by exposing the corpses in barren places or on stone towers, called Towers of Silence, where they are eaten by vultures. Zorastrians practice a number of rites for regaining lost purity. Prayers are regularly preceded by ritual ablutions. The community is divided into lay people and priests. Boys begin to study the sacred text at the age of seven years. Some priests tend the sacred fire kept burning in the temples. The best-known priest, was Magi. Zoraster composed seventeen Gatas - sacred songs. "Ahuna Vairyo" is a sacred chant. The writings are in an ancient language called the Old Avestan. Collections of Zorastrian Holy Texts are called Avesta. Translation's with glossaries and commentaries are called the Zend. Zoraster, after living alone and wandering began to have revelations at the age of 36. Zorastrianism was the State Religion of the Persian Empire 550-330 B.C. Persian Empire included Babylonia, where many Jews lived and Palestine had a great influence on the early beliefs of Judaism. It also influenced some Jewish sects from among which Christianity emerged. It also contributed much to Islam much. After the Muslim conquest of Persia, Islam became the state religion. They finally settled in Gujarat, where they are called Parsis. The few Zorastrians left in Persia suffered persecution. In 1900, many Zorastrians migrated to Iran from India.







Jainism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/mahaveera.jpgJainism is one of the three Indian philosophies, the others being Charvaka and Buddhism, which do not accept the authority of Vedas. The most important Jain teacher Theerthankara was Mahaveera.
The Jains accept three sources of knowledge. Perception, Inference and Testimony. Jains believe that every judgement is true only from a particular standpoint. To claim that a judgement is unconditionally true leads to dogmatism and intolerance.
Jains believe that all physical things are made of atoms. All living things possess a soul like light, the soul pervades the entire body which it inhabits. Consciousness is the essence of the soul. In its perfect condition, a soul possesses perfect knowledge. The karmic matter causes souls to fail to exercise their natural function.
The three jewels of Jainism
Jains believe that although a soul inherently perfect, usually it finds itself in bondage. A soul's past Karma determines the kind of body it receives and the consequent limitation. The way to deliverance according to Jainism is, through the Three Jewels, of Right Faith, of Right Knowledge and Right Conduct.
Right Conduct
This involves the practice of five virtues
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Ahimsa or non-violence
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Truth speaking
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Non-stealing
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Chastity
http://www.divinedigest.com/images/brbull.gif Non-attachments to worldly things The Jains were the first to make non-violence a rule of life. Through the practice of the Three Jewels, a person can succeed in overcoming the forces of all passions, and karmas and attain liberation. Once free, the soul attains the four-fold perfection of infinite knowledge, infinite faith, infinite power and infinite bliss. Jain Faith
Jainism is a religion without a belief in God. The Jains defend their Atheism (non belief in God), by claiming, that neither perception, nor inference can proove the existence of God. The concept of Jainism is so extreme that they have a cotton muslin mask against their mouths to prevent any germs or insects (living beings) from entering the mouth. Generally they have their evening meal before sunset - again for the same reason.






Judaism



http://www.divinedigest.com/images/judaismsimble.jpgJudaism began among the ancient Israelites, in the Middle East. Jewish tradition traces the roots of the religion back to Abraham, who lived between 1,800 and 1,500 B.C. His grandson Jacob, who was also called Israel, had 12 sons. They founded the twelve tribes that became Israelites. Jewish tradition says that the great lawgiver Moses received from God, the first five books of the Bible, which are called The PENTATEUCH or the TORAH. These books also known as the Mosaic Law, have been the basis of the Jewish religion. Judaism was the first religion to teach the belief in one God. It is believed that Jews became Monotheistic during the time of Moses. During Biblical times, first Assyrians, then the Babylonians finally the Romans conquered the Israelites. Many Jews were driven into exile over the centuries. The Jewish people settled in various parts of the Middle East and in European countries. Everywhere they were in a religious minority and they were often persecuted for their faith. In about 1,800 A.D. Jews divided into three general groups - Orthodox, Conservative and Reformed. The orthodox Jews observed rituals in a traditional way. In 1930 A.D. the German dictator Adolf Hitler and his Nazi party began a vicious campaign against Jews and by 1945, the Nazis killed about six millions of the nine million Jews of Europe. Many of the surviving Jews joined the Jews living in Palestine and established the State of Israel in 1948 under the sponsorship of United Nations. It was the first homeland Jews had known since Biblical times.







Atheism
ā`thē-ĭz'àm (Pronunciation Key) (http://reference.aol.com/columbia/_a/atheism/20051205185009990024?query=Atheists&gr=&sort=&rawtitle=atheism&source=Columbia%20Encyclopedia&type=article&audio=&video=&photo=false#)
, denial of the existence of God or gods and of any supernatural existence, to be distinguished from agnosticism (http://reference.aol.com/columbia?id=20051205141209990010), which holds that the existence cannot be proved. The term atheism has been used as an accusation against all who attack established orthodoxy, as in the trial of Socrates (javascript:;) . There were few avowed atheists from classical times until the 19th cent., when popular belief in a conflict between religion (javascript:;) and science (javascript:;) brought forth preachers of the gospel of atheism, such as Robert G. Ingersoll. There are today many individuals and groups professing atheism. The 20th cent. has seen many individuals and groups professing atheism, including Bertrand Russell (http://reference.aol.com/columbia?id=20051207042409990013)and Madalyn Murry O'Hair.




Agnosticism:
”A” means “without” and “gnosis” means “knowledge.” Hence, agnostic: without knowledge, but specifically without knowledge of gods. Strictly speaking, agnosticism is about knowledge, and knowledge is a related but separate issue from belief, the domain of theism and atheism. Thus agnosticism is not a “third way” between atheism and theism.
What is Philosophical Agnosticism?:
Philosophically, agnosticism can be described as being based upon two separate principles. The first principle is epistemological in that it relies upon empirical and logical means for acquiring knowledge about the world. The second principle is moral in that it insists that we have an ethical duty not to assert claims for ideas which we cannot adequately support either through evidence or logic.
Defining Agnosticism: Standard Dictionaries:
Dictionaries define agnosticism in a variety of ways. Some are close to how close to how Thomas Henry Huxley defined it when he coined the term. Some define it as a “third way” between atheism and theism. Some go further and describe agnosticism as a “doctrine,” something that Huxley took pains to deny.
Strong Agnosticism vs. Weak Agnosticism:
If someone is a weak agnostic, they state only that they do not know if any gods exist or not. The possibility of some theoretical god or some specific god existing is not excluded. The possibility of someone else knowing for sure if some god exists or not is also not excluded. If someone is a strong agnostic, they don’t merely claim that they don’t know if any gods exist; instead, they also claim that no one can or does know if any gods exist.
Are Agnostics Just Sitting On the Fence?:
Many people treat agnosticism as a 'non-committal' approach to the question of God's existence — this is why it is so often treated as though it were a "third way" between atheism and theism, with each of the other two committed to some particular answer and agnostics refusing to take sides. This perspective is mistaken: Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge, not a lack of commitment.
Atheism vs. Agnosticism: What's the Difference?:
Agnosticism is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not. Agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; that is agnostic theism. A person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism.
What is Agnostic Theism?:
It may seem strange at first to think that a person might believe in the existence of a god without also claiming to know that their god exists, even if we define knowledge somewhat loosely; but upon further reflection it turns out that this isn’t so odd after all. Many, many people who believe in the existence of a god do so on faith, and this faith is contrasted with the types of knowledge we normally acquire about the world around us.
Philosophic Origins of Agnosticism:
No one before Thomas Henry Huxley would have described themselves as agnostics, but we can identify philosophers and scholars who insisted that either they didn’t have knowledge of Ultimate Reality and gods, or that it wasn’t possible for anyone to have such knowledge — both positions associated with agnosticism.
Agnosticism & Thomas Henry Huxley:
The term agnosticism was coined by Professor Thomas Henry Huxley (1825-1895) at a meeting of the Metaphysical Society in 1876. For Huxley, agnosticism was a position which rejected the knowledge claims of both 'strong' atheism and traditional theism. More importantly, though, agnosticism for him was a method of doing things.
Agnosticism & Robert Green Ingersoll:
Robert Green Ingersoll was a famous and influential proponent of secularism and religious skepticism during the mid- to late 19th century in America. He was a strong advocate both of the abolition of slavery and women's rights, something that was rather unpopular. The position which really caused him problems, however was his strong defense of agnosticism and his stringent anticlericalism.

[MrsDemon]

errr, Demon, the thing about Xin3's point is that there is scientific evidence backing it up, where as theres none backing up the idea of an all powerful deity. Thats where my problem, or, lack of belief lies. I need some concrete evidence to prove it. With that said, I believe theres enough evidence of Jesus' existence, but none to prove that he was the son of who he's supposed/claimed to be.

Evolution is a fact, humans are evolving right now, slowly sure, but it is happening with each new generation.


Well to my own correction the first sentence or 2 was actually only dedicated to xin everything else was just me being general maybe adding him in to certain areas but not intentially direct.

[MrsDemon]

net crashed before i could add this.

Also if you dig deep enough into string theory / M theory you'll inevitably come across Brane Cosmology which according to the laws that govern the movement/shape of strings predicts the existence of enormously large objects called membranes floating in higher dimensional space.

Theory goes something like this:

Essentially All matter/energy including the 4 fundamental forces (Electromagnetism-Gravity-Strong and weak nuclear forces) can be explained mathematically as the movement of infinitesimally small strands of energy across tiny curled up folds of space. We'r all used to living in a 4 dimensional world - 1.length 2.width 3.height 4.time, but this theory suggests that there may be more spacial dimensions curled up so tiny we just can't see them. it is precisely the movement of energy across these tiny curled up peices of dimensional space that cause strings to vibrate differently producing what we experience as matter/force/energy. This theory unifies all 4 forces only if we assume there are 11 dimensions of space. Everything accept gravity exists as a string with both ends attached to our membrane (our universe) accept gravity which is a closed loop which allows it to float freely between membranes or universes, which accounts for it's weakness when compared to the three other forces. This theory also predicts that collisions between membranes in higherdimensional space happen all the time which may account for the big bang - so it didn't just spontaneously happen if anything in this theory is remotely true.



The Theory is by far a leap into matters unproven and to a degree with technology on thelevel it is, unprovable.

[damme]

Americans?

All christian americans believe in creationism? I find that hard to believe but terrifying if it's true.

[MrsDemon]

How many christians do actually believe in creationism?


I would have to say, If you are a christian and honestly a christian then you'd have to believe in it.

[MrsDemon]

creationism is the belief that A higher power created all that lives to this day whether directly or indirectly. If you dont believe this then you are a agnostic, atheist or evoltionary theorist and not a holder on any specific religion because they all hold the belief that a higher power started or created them.

[Xin3]

The Theory is by far a leap into matters unproven and to a degree with technology on thelevel it is, unprovable.

Many assumptions are made in this theory no doubt but it's based on something outside of personal experience. I forget the physicists name so I'll call him bob, but bob sometime in this 1960 's was trying to find a mathematical formula to describe the properties of the strong or weak (i forget) nuclear force as the interaction of point particles. And when he found one via almost accident he realized that what it was actually describing visually was the movement of a "string" that could wiggle vibrate and shake, and thus string theory was born.

[MrsDemon]

Seems far fetched in it's entirety to me, For someone to look for a mathematical formula to define those said properties, Then to stumble upon something with the fact that he was looking for something and the understanding that once a possiblity arises that a formula can be found the mind will then apply more into what can be proven.
Also wasnt it Pythagoras or dirac that came up or atleast added the final insight (the physicist u couldnt name) on the string theory.


Honestly Math is in just about all we do and have but it doesnt explain the production of life from star to humans.

[Xin3]

Actually Math/physics can explain the production of stars and life as far as i know :???:
Thats what General Relativity / Quantum Mechanics is for. In fact we can explain the creation of everything all the way back to an instant after the big bang. Our inability to rewind further stems from the fact that we're unable to unify the 4 fundamental forces into one theory, General Relativity predicts the motions of very large objects and Quantum Mechanic probabilities dealing with very small objects. String theory attempts to unify these fields by stating that what we thought was a fundamental piece of matter is actually composed of something smaller e.g. strings.

[Craysh]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xelj4_dane-cook-the-catholic-religion

I am not religious because religion requires you to follow the tenants that man put forward. I guess you could call me spiritual.
If anybody believes that the Bible is written by God, they don't know how much stuff has been taken out by the Vatican.
I'm also a firm believer of the school of thought that says that "God is not in Brick and Mortar." I.e. To be near God you don't need to goto church IMHO.

Also, I respect other peoples belief, or their right to have a lack thereof. Anybody who tries to force their beliefs (Spiritual, religious, or atheist) on someone is a fuck-tard who probably think they're enlightened.

I'd like to close with a quote. Somebody asked Einstein "Do you believe in God?".

"I'm not an athiest. I don't think I can call myself a Pantheist (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Pantheist).. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvelously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws."He then proceeds to show his view on Athiests.
In fact, Einstein tended to be more critical of debunkers, who seemed to lack humility or a sense of awe, than of the faithful. "The fanatical atheists," he wrote in a letter, "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who--in their grudge against traditional religion as the 'opium of the masses'-- cannot hear the music of the spheres."

And of course my favorite quote:
science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind

I'm sure a lot of you are intelligent, but I'm going with the big E on this one :P

[Talorth]

There is a spiritual property to the human brain. However, I do not believe the notion that humans were created by some supreme being. Not to deny the possibility, but it is very unlikely.

[Xin3]

To Einstein Religion and God was his unbounded admiration for the mystery and nature of the universe.

If a man walks up to your home and starts spewing information about Charlie the magic Unicorn and how Charlie forever changed his life, you'd naturally be a little frightened or perhaps even a little amused, either way you'd probably tell him to seek professional help or perhaps stop munching on so many mushrooms.

If the same man walks up to your home and starts spewing information about say the Christian god ect... you probably would have a different reaction and be a little more receptive. Point is it's ok to believe in God but not Charlie the Magical unicorn. Why is that? neither of them can be proven nor disproven so why are we more inclined to believe in God versus Charlie? Simple, because you grew up in an environment where believing in God was the socially acceptable thing to do.

I'm not trying to sound high or mighty it's just that to me theres no difference - there both just as unlikely. So for some of you religious people out there, what is it that attracts you to your chosen faith other than social conformity or because your parents were of said faith?

[MrsDemon]

Actually Math/physics can explain the production of stars and life as far as i know :???:
Thats what General Relativity / Quantum Mechanics is for. In fact we can explain the creation of everything all the way back to an instant after the big bang. Our inability to rewind further stems from the fact that we're unable to unify the 4 fundamental forces into one theory, General Relativity predicts the motions of very large objects and Quantum Mechanic probabilities dealing with very small objects. String theory attempts to unify these fields by stating that what we thought was a fundamental piece of matter is actually composed of something smaller e.g. strings.


I said my statement on that a little ignorantly, I'll admit but to a degree it has possiblity and then to stretch it shows it's flaws.


I believe in god and i believe in a huge chunk of the bible but i dont believe in mandatory church atleast im to lazy to accept it nor do i fight other religions, im far fro ma fanatic, I'm lazy with mine to be honest. I believein religion and i stick with mine, only opposition i raise is when mine is being pushed away from me and other ideals are being forced upon me

[Grog]

richard dawkins is a cunt IMHO

[Xin3]

lolol, but a brilliant cunt imo XD

[MrsDemon]

lolol, but a brilliant cunt imo XD


Opinionated fag imo, nuthin to do with brilliance just plain opinion with some scientific background to stroke it's basis

[MrsDemon]

To Einstein Religion and God was his unbounded admiration for the mystery and nature of the universe.

If a man walks up to your home and starts spewing information about Charlie the magic Unicorn and how Charlie forever changed his life, you'd naturally be a little frightened or perhaps even a little amused, either way you'd probably tell him to seek professional help or perhaps stop munching on so many mushrooms.

If the same man walks up to your home and starts spewing information about say the Christian god ect... you probably would have a different reaction and be a little more receptive. Point is it's ok to believe in God but not Charlie the Magical unicorn. Why is that? neither of them can be proven nor disproven so why are we more inclined to believe in God versus Charlie? Simple, because you grew up in an environment where believing in God was the socially acceptable thing to do.

I'm not trying to sound high or mighty it's just that to me theres no difference - there both just as unlikely. So for some of you religious people out there, what is it that attracts you to your chosen faith other than social conformity or because your parents were of said faith?


LOL nope your wrong and yes u r right. First Charlie the unicorn would have to have a book written in ancient text, in many different languages with historic background beyond just one culture. Christianity has been around far longer and has been established longer then just about any said religion.

Scientist have been proven the bible for years, showing archeological evidence of many parts of the bible, So while 100% of the bible isnt proven (yet). If a theory is proposed and 50% of the theory is already proven then belief in the theory becomes something serious.

I'll tell you the difference - God has been spoken about in the same general storyline far beyond any one nation can remember.


The same thing can be said - Evoltionist who believe that darwins general theories are what happen base off of what? They draw to conclusions that said evoltionary theories happened the time they say but yet they never witnessed nor can they determine any of it to be base fact.
The same as religion, someoen who believes in theories is putting faith in the ideas of another person/people......TO sit there and believe a a man tell youwhere you started from 50+million years before his greatest parents were even thought of is to me far fetched.
TO say that the starts and the earth were made by something no man witnessed is hilarious without base.
Nothing but what happens now is ever seen or witnessed so at the end of the day it's believe what u want, you'll find out when u die

[Jadein]

Although I am more on the side of Demon simply because I am a Christian ... Christianity itself has only been around for 2000 years ... You know, Jesus and all being the basis of said belief. Paganism is the oldest religion .... the belief in many gods and magick ... Judaism is a close second. I have many friends who are pagans and practice magick and witchcraft. They often ask me how do I feel about it all. My response is this ... God never said there weren't any other gods ... He just said not to have any other gods before Him. Wanna know something strange also ... there is a such thing as Christian Witches. I'm not perfect and niether is anyone else ... but that is the beauty in what I believe ... I don't have to be and I don't have to feel guilty for not making the mark ... and it's not my job to judge anyone else. I do realize that many many other Christians have an issue with this one part (not judging) but in the end that's there problem to deal with, not mine.

[Grindrolas]

LOL nope your wrong and yes u r right. First Charlie the unicorn would have to have a book written in ancient text, in many different languages with historic background beyond just one culture. Christianity has been around far longer and has been established longer then just about any said religion.
So, why did people have faith in Christ PRIOR to the Bible? Are you honestly trying to say that the only reason people believe in this is because of an archaic book written forever ago? I'm going to write a book about Charlie the Magic Unicorn, bury it somewhere, and 2000 years from now there will be a religion based on him, according to your logic.

Scientist have been proven the bible for years, showing archeological evidence of many parts of the bible, So while 100% of the bible isnt proven (yet). If a theory is proposed and 50% of the theory is already proven then belief in the theory becomes something serious.
No one is arguing whether Jesus existed or not. The argument is that an all powerful deity doesn't exist, or that there is no evidence to support the claim, other than blind faith.

The same thing can be said - Evoltionist who believe that darwins general theories are what happen base off of what? They draw to conclusions that said evoltionary theories happened the time they say but yet they never witnessed nor can they determine any of it to be base fact.
The same as religion, someoen who believes in theories is putting faith in the ideas of another person/people......TO sit there and believe a a man tell youwhere you started from 50+million years before his greatest parents were even thought of is to me far fetched.
TO say that the starts and the earth were made by something no man witnessed is hilarious without base.
Nothing but what happens now is ever seen or witnessed so at the end of the day it's believe what u want, you'll find out when u die
Based off of SCIENTIFIC PROOF. Evolution has been proven SCIENTIFICALLY. How has it been proven? Same as the existence of Jesus and his followers, archaeological digs. Humans are evolving right now, as we speak. We won't ever witness a drastic change because its very small, but it happens, and is still happening. Theres a difference between believing in something that has CONCRETE EVIDENCE and putting your FAITH in something you believe to be true. Gravity exists on this earth, no one can say otherwise, because its a FACT. Jesus existed, people proved this (as far as they could) by (supposedly) verifying his lineage and (supposedly) finding his burial site. God hasn't been proven one way or the other, and no amount of digging will prove otherwise.

[Xin3]

LOL nope your wrong and yes u r right. First Charlie the unicorn would have to have a book written in ancient text, in many different languages with historic background beyond just one culture. Christianity has been around far longer and has been established longer then just about any said religion.

Scientist have been proven the bible for years, showing archeological evidence of many parts of the bible, So while 100% of the bible isnt proven (yet). If a theory is proposed and 50% of the theory is already proven then belief in the theory becomes something serious.

I'll tell you the difference - God has been spoken about in the same general storyline far beyond any one nation can remember.


The same thing can be said - Evoltionist who believe that darwins general theories are what happen base off of what? They draw to conclusions that said evoltionary theories happened the time they say but yet they never witnessed nor can they determine any of it to be base fact.
The same as religion, someoen who believes in theories is putting faith in the ideas of another person/people......TO sit there and believe a a man tell youwhere you started from 50+million years before his greatest parents were even thought of is to me far fetched.
TO say that the starts and the earth were made by something no man witnessed is hilarious without base.
Nothing but what happens now is ever seen or witnessed so at the end of the day it's believe what u want, you'll find out when u die


Beacuse of the slow rate of reproduction in large animals it's hard to see evolution in action - however whole colonies of bacteria can be produced over night and you can witness their evolutionary changes generation after generation. Since these changes occer within the DNA molecule and we like bacteria have DNA .... dammit Demon I'm getting tired I'll have to continue tomorrow. I'm not telling you to take everything at face value, religion however from my perspective is.

[Craysh]

Christianity itself has only been around for 2000 years ...
Actually, more like 1900 years in it's current encarnation (I.E. the merging of Pagan holidays.)
Based off of SCIENTIFIC PROOF. Evolution has been proven SCIENTIFICALLY. How has it been proven? Same as the existence of Jesus and his followers, archaeological digs. Humans are evolving right now, as we speak. We won't ever witness a drastic change because its very small, but it happens, and is still happening. Theres a difference between believing in something that has CONCRETE EVIDENCE and putting your FAITH in something you believe to be true. Gravity exists on this earth, no one can say otherwise, because its a FACT. Jesus existed, people proved this (as far as they could) by (supposedly) verifying his lineage and (supposedly) finding his burial site. God hasn't been proven one way or the other, and no amount of digging will prove otherwise.

I never understood why people believe that a God can exist but discard evolution at the same time. That's like saying that God is all-powerful and all-knowing, yet too stupid to make a mechanism like evolution.

Einstein said: Science doesn't disprove God, it enforces it.

[Xin3]

Also something to note, Light travelling through space is not instaneous. In fact light travels at approximately 186 thousand miles / second. Because of this property we can deduce that the further away an object is the longer it takes the light to reach us, therefore extremely faraway objects whos light is just now reaching us may appear different at present. Essentially your always looking into the past. Now take into account the huge distances between objects in space and you than realize that the image your looking at is really old. Thats how we can see the history of the universe =D. One of many ways.

Early night for me so I'll elaborate on a few points I made tomorrow.

[Damarus]

See what you just said is clearly a belief in scientology.I think you might be misunderstanding the practice of scientology a little... It's not a simple belief in science or anything. Remember, it was founded by a science fiction author :p

Among these advanced teachings, one episode revealed to those who reach OT level III is the story of Xenu and his Galactic Confederacy. Xenu (sometimes Xemu) is introduced as an alien ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. Scientologists believe the alien souls continue to do this today, causing a variety of physical ill-effects in modern-day humans. Hubbard called these clustered spirits "Body Thetans", and the advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating them and neutralizing their ill effects

[MrsDemon]

I think you might be misunderstanding the practice of scientology a little... It's not a simple belief in science or anything. Remember, it was founded by a science fiction author :p


Corrected myself on that one, more so a evolutionist then anything based on theories proposed.



the Religion of christianity I say is the oldest based on the fact that I see the adam and Eve personally as the first christians believing in God before Christ.
That is my opinion, so to me it's the oldest religion.


Now Grind I noticed u caps your words so i'll take in the need to be loud.

First- Evolution well certain parts of it like I said already, Can be "proven" as far as What really happened with the creation of the earth and what really happened with the creation of the sun, how the first humans became how they did and how humans became.

Scientifically proven? The ideas they come with such as evolution are only based on the things present to this day.

Let me explain to you the flaws in certain ideas in evolution.

Humans have genetic make up code ex: X24ABO
Apes have the similar genetic code of Ex: X24ABR

but because the genetic make-ups are so close clearly they are related.
Many people will try to toss the argument that well they found the ancestors of ape and man, Even the bible says the mutual ground in all of that.

The fact we all came from lil micro-organisms from the ocean can not be proven.


See I wont be sit here and fight against evolutionary theory the later of it is easily proven and supported but early of it can not. I'm tired so i prolly am not proving my point ot well.

Anybody saying that Evolution can be proven without a doubt and is therefore is fact or w.e is ignorant and not to be mean but any logical person with a open mind can see. the same argument can be put for both religion and evolution atleast it's beginning.

It has not been proven without a doubt where humans came from ever no one can show you evidence whether apes or a magical fart, It's all theoritical bullshit with the application of modern proven knowledge.

They see people can grow depending surrounds and to conflict the ideas of religion they put science as truth. Since a computer shows the gradual evolution of how we became what we are, it must be true when the calculations in the computer are man made.

I wont say any religion is right i believe in my own as I dont believe in yours or lack of. I keep a open mind and apply science to both sides aswell as lookin to both, even thought im believing in a religion that can be proven only 50%.

Evolution at points has the same factor.



I'm tired i dont think im making sense and i prolly aint im done for now

[Xin3]

8uBAPbOWLxc

9CitfTtMIx8

[Xin3]

richard dawkins is a cunt IMHO

Opinionated fag imo, nuthin to do with brilliance just plain opinion with some scientific background to stroke it's basis

lol of-course Dawkins would say that you only react negatively to his direct manner because of the taboos surrouding challenging religion 8-).

[damme]

...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn :)

[Xin3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn :)
May the invisible unicorn strike you down.

[Xin3]

Demon posted:


Corrected myself on that one, more so a evolutionist then anything based on theories proposed.

the Religion of christianity I say is the oldest based on the fact that I see the adam and Eve personally as the first christians believing in God before Christ.
That is my opinion, so to me it's the oldest religion.

Now Grind I noticed u caps your words so i'll take in the need to be loud.

First- Evolution well certain parts of it like I said already, Can be "proven" as far as What really happened with the creation of the earth and what really happened with the creation of the sun, how the first humans became how they did and how humans became.

I understand where your going with this i think anyways XD. Your saying God is responsible for the creation and laws that govern our universe, therefore all of what science aims to accomplish is a means to understand the method by which god created/designed our universe. To me this isn't an explanation. By introducing an extremely complex being such as god as a means to explain the the complex questions surrounding our existence doesn't make sense rationally. What then created god and what type of environment does he exist in. Perhaps that knowledge is not accessible to us with our current hardware (brain) or the truth of it would overwhelm our ability to process it and our heads would explode so why then did god give us such small brains? Maybe thats why he also created evolution? Anyhow i think you get the point - I'm not really answering any questions XD.

Scientifically proven? The ideas they come with such as evolution are only based on the things present to this day.

Evolution is actually based off of a ridiculously large amount of information compiled from many fields and subjects. Fossil records give us information from the past and the study of microorganisms can give us some real time footage to mention only two. People see the effects of evolution all the time. Rats and cockroaches become resistant to common poisons used on the all because all the poor bastards without that genetic marker that allows them to survive die. There are more ways of observing evolution than i have patience to type XD.

Let me explain to you the flaws in certain ideas in evolution.

Humans have genetic make up code ex: X24ABO
Apes have the similar genetic code of Ex: X24ABR

but because the genetic make-ups are so close clearly they are related.

Not quite sure i see the flaw here. When we examine what we're made of in biology that being the building block of organic matter such as cells/proteins/amino acids ect.., we also see that everything around us that we consider alive is also composed of the same stuff - further more so are the bones we dug up and the fossils records of single cell organisms we find embedded in rock billions of years old.
If your saying my flaw is assuming that because we're made of the same stuff at a fundamental level and the interactions between organelles at this lvl obey the same rules than I'd say your just refusing to accept evidence. If it wasn't for these flawed assumptions there would be no Genetics, DNA testing, The human Genome project wouldn't exist and neither would most vaccines. ect.. and we'd be a much unhealthier civilization.

Many people will try to toss the argument that well they found the ancestors of ape and man, Even the bible says the mutual ground in all of that.

The fact we all came from lil micro-organisms from the ocean can not be proven.

Nothing can ultimately be proven but with the amount of information at our disposal, it's all pointing to one thing, that we came from lil micro-organisms cooked up near a geothermal vent at the bottom of the ocean most likely somewhere near the mid Atlantic ridge where the environment was just right for our creation. Again you choose not accept this information but thats up to you. Darwin himself insisted that people not accept his theory at first glance but challange, unfortunately other fields in science have only enforced it. Evolution may not be 100% truth but it's pretty damn close and nothing better has been discovered.

See I wont be sit here and fight against evolutionary theory the later of it is easily proven and supported but early of it can not. I'm tired so i prolly am not proving my point ot well.

Anybody saying that Evolution can be proven without a doubt and is therefore is fact or w.e is ignorant and not to be mean but any logical person with a open mind can see. the same argument can be put for both religion and evolution atleast it's beginning.

It has not been proven without a doubt where humans came from ever no one can show you evidence whether apes or a magical fart, It's all theoritical bullshit with the application of modern proven knowledge.

They see people can grow depending surrounds and to conflict the ideas of religion they put science as truth. Since a computer shows the gradual evolution of how we became what we are, it must be true when the calculations in the computer are man made.

These bullshit theories are built around principles that govern more about your life than you realize. Quantum mechanics and specifically the study of electromagnatisms is whats responsible for allowing us to have this conversation right now via computer/electronics. These theories are built through test and observation and re-examination till a working model is found. If eletricity and magnetisms hadn't been unified, we wouldn't be debating right now. It's these same theories that scientists use to explain our origins. So why accept the workings of a computer or expect to hear music when u play an mp3 file if you don't accept these principles when used to examine our origins/existence.

What we experience in our everyday lives represents only a small fraction of what going on around us. We see only a certain spectrum of the electromagnet field that being visible light, our eyes can't see high frequencies such as ultra violet, x rays and gamma rays or anything on the low end such as infared, microwaves, radio waves ect.. but we see evidence of them. Just turn on your radio..

In essance science gives us tools with which we use to gather more information about our surroudings. Science doesn't make any descisions for us, at the end of the day it just give us a bit more factual information to work with.

I wont say any religion is right i believe in my own as I don't believe in yours or lack of. I keep a open mind and apply science to both sides as well as lookin to both, even thought im believing in a religion that can be proven only 50%.

Evolution at points has the same factor.

I've read the bibles of various religions and nothing is really explained, I mean 2000 years ago it would have made sence but today . They all go something like this

1) The bible says that God exists
2) and God wrote the bible (in some cases by passing knowledge to man)
3) therefore, God exists.

If this makes more sense to you than theories based on observation/experiment than this argument is mute lol. However u did state that you're tired XD

I'm tired i dont think im making sense and i prolly aint im done for now.

[Xin3]

In many instances religion leads to this

story : (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/187655.php)http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/187655.php

[Grog]

lol of-course Dawkins would say that you only react negatively to his direct manner because of the taboos surrouding challenging religion 8-).
i react negatively because he's on an idiotic quest for truth. i don't even believe in any of the world religions!

[Xin3]

Whats idiotic about his quest for truth XD? and I'm not saying you do believe in any world religions just that the stigmas attached to religions sometimes cause reactions in people they may not be aware of.

[Grog]

we have no access to it that's why. what's wrong with a bit of comfort anyway? what if the truth was that we all have to kill eachother using spoons?

[LordChowder]

http://blogs.the-haleys.org/media/1/20051014-iwant2believe400x330.jpg

[LordChowder]

http://www.pd.infn.it/%7Edorigo/fsm.jpg

[Xin3]

we have no access to it that's why. what's wrong with a bit of comfort anyway? what if the truth was that we all have to kill eachother using spoons?

Nothing wrong with a bit of comfort, but not everyone is presented with the facts and asked weather they'd like the blue pill or the red one (ya ya a matrix reference). If the ultimate truth of religion is to comfort us however why not just abuse drugs, instant gratification no questions asked.

p.s. what do you mean by we have no access towards it?
p.s. why do we need religion to feel comfort? In fact i find religion small and restricting XD

[Grog]

If the ultimate truth of religion is to comfort us however why not just abuse drugs, instant gratification no questions asked
and why, instead of abusing drugs, do we not just use religion? you act like theyre both as damaging

p.s. what do you mean by we have no access towards it?
descartes reasoned that the senses can't be trusted (we could just be in a dream) so we don't actually know if anything exists. belief that you exist is simply a matter of faith in my opinion

and yes i know this led him to conclude 'i think therefore i am' (then somehow argued for god's existence from that) but when he said this he had it with an audience in mind, so really he wasn't breaking down perception to the point that he claimed

[LordChowder]

long long video... (part 2 of it, part 1 is mostly lecture and reading of his book, this is questions and the meat of the arguments)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_z85O0P2M&mode=related&search=

but very interesting watch.


short clip! and a flying spaghetti monster.
6mmskXXetcg

[Grog]

dawkins has so many fanboys :roll:

[Xin3]

and why, instead of abusing drugs, do we not just use religion? you act like theyre both as damaging


descartes reasoned that the senses can't be trusted (we could just be in a dream) so we don't actually know if anything exists. belief that you exist is simply a matter of faith in my opinion

and yes i know this led him to conclude 'i think therefore i am' (then somehow argued for god's existence from that) but when he said this he had it with an audience in mind, so really he wasn't breaking down perception to the point that he claimed

They are just as damaging in my opinion XD. Why take part in any of the pleasurable things life has to offer if u can just stick a needle up your arm. Why have sex if heroine is better than sex? Religion says why bother exploring or experimenting with anything, we already have the answers written write here in this ancient book, just sit back pay your collection and proceed to eternity in the afterlife if your particular religion has one.

[LordChowder]

i dunno, dawkins is brilliant for sure, but i may find hitchens' way of debating much more entertaining. maybe because hes basically always drunk, and doesnt particularly care about being overly polite.

[Grog]

so a moral code that promotes loving your neighbour and living in a harmonious society is a bad thing? and taking drugs instead that will cause addiction and damage your body is a good thing?
religion is not used wrongly because of religion itself, it's when someone has an agenda they use religion to further that. dawkins promoting getting rid of religion is like someone saying we need to get rid of all rocks because bad people use rocks to hit other people with

[Xin3]

so a moral code that promotes loving your neighbour and living in a harmonious society is a bad thing? and taking drugs instead that will cause addiction and damage your body is a good thing?
religion is not used wrongly because of religion itself, it's when someone has an agenda they use religion to further that. dawkins promoting getting rid of religion is like someone saying we need to get rid of all rocks because bad people use rocks to hit other people with

Morality does not stem from religion at all PERIOD.

Have you read the bible?
Have you read how god reacts when someone pisses him off say by flirting with another god?
Have you read how many times he's burned people alive to teach another person a lesson?
Have you read how many times he's wiped out humanity?
Do you realize one of his commandments allows u to execute anyone seen engaging in homosexuality?
God is anything but moral.

People who take their morals right out of the bible are killing each other right now in the middle-east and ireland ect... hell they'r not killing, their cleansing the land of parasites and when their day of judgment arrives they will be rewarded not condemned. In fact the higher pk count u can rack up in the name of god the better off you'l be in the afterlife.

If you need a supernatural being to tell you that it's wrong to bash your neighboors skull in well...

The difference between rocks and religion is that religion provides motive and reason for bad people to pick up rocks in the first place.

Ofcourse other factors play a role in violent behavior but since the subject of this thread is reliogion I'll leave it at that.

[LordChowder]

i dont understand why people bother saying anything when they have no idea what theyre talking about. saying morality comes from religion is ridiculous. interesting you mention rocks, considering the bible clearly states you should stone disobedient children, and kill any man that works on the sabath. but even christians ignore these rules? why? god is infallible, and he provides the sole basis for what is moral and what isnt right? so who are we to say "stoning children is wrong". the answer, which is clear, is that mankind as a whole, has a sense of morality that is completely separate from religion.
you dont have to be religious, or even human, to feel that killing your own is not right. even in the wild, animals have their own moral code, and you dont often see one elephant killing another elephant just because its there. usually chimpanzees dont attack one another just because theyre there. oddly enough, there are chimps that will attack other chimps as 1 group vs another group for territory and food. but within the family unit you see compassion, bonding, and what appears to be an underlying sense of morality. this situation seems alot like our sense of morality no? are wars moral? killing is clearly wrong in the bible, but we, as humans choose when its ok to kill eachother. its more than obvious our morality comes from ourselves, which isnt always a good thing is it... or is it?

[Grog]

Have you read the bible?
Have you read how god reacts when someone pisses him say by flirting with another god?
Have you read how many times he's burned people alive to teach another person a lesson?
Have you read how many times he's wiped out humanity?
Do you realize one of his commandments allows u to execute anyone seen engaging in homosexuality?
God is anything but moral.
i agree taking the bible (lol i hate focusing on the bible- damn my primarily christian education!) literally is wrong, but that does not make the entire religion (or any other) wrong. im a firm believer that we need to de-mythologise (sp? or was that one just made up?) the bible, that is the bible was written a long time ago, for an audience very different from today. world floods and burning bushes made sense to them, but we need to put it in different terms for today's audience.

The difference between rocks and and religion is that religion provides motive and reason for bad people to pick up rocks in the first place
i completely disagree here, those bad people are looking for a reason and they already have a motive, religion is simply being used wrongly.

[Grog]

i dont understand why people bother saying anything when they have no idea what theyre talking about. saying morality comes from religion is ridiculous. interesting you mention rocks, considering the bible clearly states you should stone disobedient children, and kill any man that works on the sabath. but even christians ignore these rules? why? god is infallible, and he provides the sole basis for what is moral and what isnt right? so who are we to say "stoning children is wrong". the answer, which is clear, is that mankind as a whole, has a sense of morality that is completely separate from religion.
just to be clear, i'm not defending the bible, it's riddled with inconsistencies but that's what you get from a book written by many different people for differing audiences and motives. im defending the idea that religion is not totally evil and should be eradicated

you dont have to be religious, or even human, to feel that killing your own is not right. even in the wild, animals have their own moral code, and you dont often see one elephant killing another elephant just because its there. usually chimpanzees dont attack one another just because theyre there. oddly enough, there are chimps that will attack other chimps as 1 group vs another group for territory and food. but within the family unit you see compassion, bonding, and what appears to be an underlying sense of morality. this situation seems alot like our sense of morality no? are wars moral? killing is clearly wrong in the bible, but we, as humans choose when its ok to kill eachother. its more than obvious our morality comes from ourselves, which isnt always a good thing is it... or is it?
i totally agree here, morality comes from a society that wants to survive. if we were all allowed to just kill eachother society would crumble and man would die out. religion is simply expressing that. but when religion goes against that guiding rule of survival (and to a certain extent hedonism) is when it goes against it's own purpose

edit: philosophical debate is NOT a good cure for a hangover T_T

[LordChowder]

so instead of looking for actual answers, youre willing to accept the fact that the sole document stating the existance of your god is wrong, but the god it projects is still right. and that youre one of the lucky minority of the world who chose the right god. ok. basically every day, theres scientific breakthroughs that explain something that was once thought to be gods doing. over time the church has just been either ignoring it, or blowing it off as if it doesn't matter they were wrong, because theyre still right about god making us. unfortunately it does matter because christians, jews, and any other religion are no different than any previous religion that we now consider mythology or just old stories. dawkins put it quite well when he states it all depends on where you were brought up. if you were brought up in ancient greece, youd believe in zues and all those gods, if you were in india, youd be hindu, etc. all of which believe they are right, and that their god/religion is infallible. theyre all different, and all claim to be the right one. there is one similarity between all the current religions and all the absurd past ones. they're all wrong.

[LordChowder]

religion is a crutch and support for the weak minded who arent able to, or dont want to look for the real answers. its much easier, and much more comforting to think "someone put us here, and someone gives me a purpose so i dont have to find one for myself". just being here isnt enough for them. im drawn to the question about a man that does good deeds only because he believes in god and wants to go to heaven, versus the man that devotes himself to doing good deeds, and helping others, but doesnt believe in god. its obvious which one is more moral, that being the second one, but the first one, is the only one according to christians, that will make it into heaven. this isnt morality, this is basically the opposite. why should we need any other reason to do good things other than because its good? why should we always expect a reward?

[LordChowder]

anyways going to sleep, atleast noone here believes in the book of revelations or that bullshit about noahs ark. i actually know a guy at work that tries to explain to me how theres scientific evidence for a global flood, and that the ark could have been built, and that noah was like 600 years old due to a different atmosphere at that time or something, and that the earth is 10000 years old only. its fun talking to him because i love laughing at stupid people. but by all means, if someone feels this is true id love to see some arguments for this.

[Grog]

so instead of looking for actual answers, youre willing to accept the fact that the sole document stating the existance of your god is wrong, but the god it projects is still right.
not my god, as i've said, i don't believe in a god. the key there is belief, since we cannot know right or wrong

and that youre one of the lucky minority of the world who chose the right god. ok.
i don't believe in any sort of objective truth there, the 'god' i (apparently) put forward is one i believe is best for the survival of society

dawkins put it quite well when he states it all depends on where you were brought up. if you were brought up in ancient greece, youd believe in zues and all those gods, if you were in india, youd be hindu, etc. all of which believe they are right, and that their god/religion is infallible. theyre all different, and all claim to be the right one. there is one similarity between all the current religions and all the absurd past ones. they're all wrong.
this is a basic arguement against the objectivity of the world religions, not Dawkins' own theory (shame on him if he claims he came up with it), but i've already said i don't believe morality to be objective. you seem to be making all your points against religion, rather than me

religion is a crutch and support for the weak minded who arent able to, or dont want to look for the real answers.
i'd say we cannot look for the 'real' answers

im drawn to the question about a man that does good deeds only because he believes in god and wants to go to heaven, versus the man that devotes himself to doing good deeds, and helping others, but doesnt believe in god. its obvious which one is more moral, that being the second one, but the first one, is the only one according to christians, that will make it into heaven. this isnt morality, this is basically the opposite. why should we need any other reason to do good things other than because its good? why should we always expect a reward?
very kantian, i like it

[Grog]

anyways going to sleep, atleast noone here believes in the book of revelations or that bullshit about noahs ark. i actually know a guy at work that tries to explain to me how theres scientific evidence for a global flood, and that the ark could have been built, and that noah was like 600 years old due to a different atmosphere at that time or something, and that the earth is 10000 years old only. its fun talking to him because i love laughing at stupid people. but by all means, if someone feels this is true id love to see some arguments for this.
rofl i'd love to meet this guy

[Xin3]

Yes Grog I am a Dawkins-fanboi, i think it's the accent :mrgreen: personally.

These are just the first parts, if you wanna see the rest search you-tube.

An Atheist Call To Arms.
u3l0LB_S2Io


Root Of All Evil
http://www.atheistnation.net/video/?video/00004


The Big Question : Why Are We Here.
13NPZ5Nv_fc


The Blind Watchmaker
3BSjtL0mdLo

ect..

[Grog]

he certainly is charismatic ^^

[Jadein]

The problem with arguing about the bible and equate it to Christianity is this ... Just like Chowder did ... people who know nothing about what they are talking about only go to the parts they do ... The old testament mainly ... sorry to inform you boys, but that actually isn't what Christianity is about. The old testament is in the bible as a form of a history lesson. To show us where things were and to give us insight to what God's plan was from the beginning. Christianity is rooted in Christ and the new testament. My point being this ... if you want to attack Christianity and the bible ... at least pick the right part of it. The problem is though that many people have a hard time attacking a person who lived his life in love with every type of person who walks this earth ... prostitutes, beggers, lepars, disabled people, drug addicts, greedy, corrupt and misguided people. That's who Jesus spent his time with ... now regardless of whether or not you believed He was crucified, died, was buried and rose on the 3rd day doesn't really matter .... I'd still want to be like him. He loved everyone and even when He was angery there was compassion behind what He was doing. I don't think that's too bad of a person to emulate.

[Xin3]

The problem with arguing about the bible and equate it to Christianity is this ... Just like Chowder did ... people who know nothing about what they are talking about only go to the parts they do ... The old testament mainly ... sorry to inform you boys, but that actually isn't what Christianity is about. The old testament is in the bible as a form of a history lesson. To show us where things were and to give us insight to what God's plan was from the beginning. Christianity is rooted in Christ and the new testament. My point being this ... if you want to attack Christianity and the bible ... at least pick the right part of it. The problem is though that many people have a hard time attacking a person who lived his life in love with every type of person who walks this earth ... prostitutes, beggers, lepars, disabled people, drug addicts, greedy, corrupt and misguided people. That's who Jesus spent his time with ... now regardless of whether or not you believed He was crucified, died, was buried and rose on the 3rd day doesn't really matter .... I'd still want to be like him. He loved everyone and even when He was angery there was compassion behind what He was doing. I don't think that's too bad of a person to emulate.

I agree with you on why can't someone aspire to better themselves, but why do we need the bible to do this? What in religion allows us to love and helps us to beomce compassionate beings that we don't already have? Why does good have to be done in the name of god instead of because you know morally it's the right thing to do?

[Grog]

I agree with you on why can't someone aspire to better themselves, but why do we need the bible to do this? What in religion allows us to love and helps us to beomce compassionate beings that we don't already have? Why does good have to be done in the name of god instead of because you know morally it's the right thing to do?
i hope you realise how extremely idealistic that is. people can quite frequently be very selfish and cruel

[Damarus]

But does the bible reduce the amount of people that are selfish and cruel?! :o

[Grog]

can we stop talking about the bible? let's talk about the book of mormon instead

[Damarus]

Fuck mormons...

[Grog]

dumb dumb dumb dumb dummmb

[Grindrolas]

But does religion reduce the amount of people that are selfish and cruel?! :o
fixed

[Grog]

i don't know, since we've never had a world without religion.
there, i answered your question, can we please go off topic now?

[Damarus]

I love Ryan. He makes me moist.

[Grog]

like a piece of toast or an old cloth?

[Damarus]

Like when you leave a slice of tomato on a cracker for too long.

[Grindrolas]

i don't know, since we've never had a world without religion.
there, i answered your question, can we please go off topic now?
I just don't understand why people have to fear the "wrath of God" to do the right thing, or the moral thing.

I like to live my life as if any day might be my last. Enjoying myself is priority number one, and if what I'm doing isn't enjoyable, there is no point. I live with the idea that death is the end, there is no after life, and that when my time comes, all there will be is darkness. It isn't a fear of that darkness that causes me to do the right thing (for the most part, I won't ever tell you I'm perfect, I'm far from it). It's just a sense of how I should treat people. Religion didn't teach me this, my parents did.

[Damarus]

All my parents tell me to do is stop taking drugs... It'd be good advice if I was taking drugs in the first place.

[Grindrolas]

All my parents tell me to do is stop taking drugs... It'd be good advice if I was taking drugs in the first place.
My dad once told me to put my penis in a jar...that was advice I wasn't going to take

[Damarus]

http://www.flashasylum.com/db/files/Comics/Rob/erection.jpg (http://www.explosm.net/comics/290/)

[Grog]

i always keep a spare erection in my pocket

[Talorth]

OH MY ALLAH.

[Xin3]

Christopher Hitchens at Politics and Prose
http://richarddawkins.net/article,1203,Christopher-Hitchens-at-Politics-and-Prose,Politics-and-Prose-Bookstore


Richard Dawkins vs Bill O'Reilly (Bill is a cunt imo - and not a brilliant one like Dawkins)
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmarchive/2007/04/richard_dawkins_9.html


This is my own personal thread by the way now.



Penn & Teller's Bullshit - Holier Than Thou With Christopher Hitchens
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4935138732025185923

[LordChowder]

The problem with arguing about the bible and equate it to Christianity is this ... Just like Chowder did ... people who know nothing about what they are talking about only go to the parts they do ... The old testament mainly ... sorry to inform you boys, but that actually isn't what Christianity is about. The old testament is in the bible as a form of a history lesson. To show us where things were and to give us insight to what God's plan was from the beginning. Christianity is rooted in Christ and the new testament. My point being this ... if you want to attack Christianity and the bible ... at least pick the right part of it. The problem is though that many people have a hard time attacking a person who lived his life in love with every type of person who walks this earth ... prostitutes, beggers, lepars, disabled people, drug addicts, greedy, corrupt and misguided people. That's who Jesus spent his time with ... now regardless of whether or not you believed He was crucified, died, was buried and rose on the 3rd day doesn't really matter .... I'd still want to be like him. He loved everyone and even when He was angery there was compassion behind what He was doing. I don't think that's too bad of a person to emulate.


unfortunatly, this is where christians are wrong. their faith, stems from the bible. to believe ANYTHING you hear in church, or the things you read in your bible, you put forth 100% belief that the bible is the word of god, and that the word of god is infallible. one cant be a true christian without believing the words of the bible, since the christian beliefs stem solely from the words in the bible. all im asking is, since the bible is 100% right, who are we to pick and choose whats ok to follow, and whats not. who are we to speculate what is meant to be a metaphor, and whats not. oddly enough something is not considered metaphorical at anytime in history until its scientifically or otherwise proven incorrect. basically its a way to explain errors in the bible, without admitting the word of god is not ever wrong. the largest leap of faith christians make is believing the bible is the word of god, and not just written by man. that seems much more preposterous at times than god actually exsisting, given all that is in the bible. i use examples from the bible to show how christians pick and choose what is right, which obviously means humans can decide for themselves. this not only shows that humans have an innate sense of right, wrong, and reasonable. but also that they KNOW the bible is wrong on nearly every account, but they ignore that, and focus on a few key words they claim to be the words of god. if it were really the word of a supreme being, wouldnt all the text in that book be sacred, and followed to a T? thats all im saying. somehow along the line, god claims he created the universe, humanity, etc etc, and that he is outside all laws of the universe - in the bible, gives you all the rules youre supposed to live your life by. you dont kill because god says not to! you dont steal because god says its wrong! and thats the word of god and its unfallible. in the same book, it tells you to stone disobedient children, and suddenly thats ok to be like, nah lets not do that or kill men who work on the sabath. you pick and choose, thats the point of that argument. i know plenty about the bible, and i can assure you those examples and other contradictions are countless. but its ok, i dont hate you because youre religious <3

[Grog]

you put forth 100% belief that the bible is the word of god, and that the word of god is infallible.
not all christians believe this

[LordChowder]

not all christians believe this

then why would you be christian? its the bible that says jesus is the son of god. if you dont believe the bible is true, why would you believe just one claim that it makes? why would you stem all your beliefs from a book of fiction, rather than scientific evidence. just more picking and choosing.

[Xin3]

Richard Dawkins to appear in Second Life


http://richarddawkins.net/article,1156,Richard-Dawkins-to-appear-in-Second-Life,Transworld-Publishers-RichardDawkinsnet

[Talorth]

Richard Dawkins to appear in Second Life


http://richarddawkins.net/article,1156,Richard-Dawkins-to-appear-in-Second-Life,Transworld-Publishers-RichardDawkinsnet

LOL, because second life is the place where all the sheltered philosophical nerds live?

[Craysh]

religion is a crutch and support for the weak minded who arent able to, or dont want to look for the real answers. its much easier, and much more comforting to think "someone put us here, and someone gives me a purpose so i dont have to find one for myself". just being here isnt enough for them. im drawn to the question about a man that does good deeds only because he believes in god and wants to go to heaven, versus the man that devotes himself to doing good deeds, and helping others, but doesnt believe in god. its obvious which one is more moral, that being the second one, but the first one, is the only one according to christians, that will make it into heaven. this isnt morality, this is basically the opposite. why should we need any other reason to do good things other than because its good? why should we always expect a reward?
It is humanly impossible to be completely altruistic. You always do something for yourself whether it's for financial gain, or just a nice fuzzy feeling in your stomach.
Aside from that it's also very closed minded of you to think that everything a religious or spiritual people do is in "fear" of God as opposed to doing it for a God or to simply make that person happy.

anyways going to sleep, atleast noone here believes in the book of revelations or that bullshit about noahs ark. i actually know a guy at work that tries to explain to me how theres scientific evidence for a global flood, and that the ark could have been built, and that noah was like 600 years old due to a different atmosphere at that time or something, and that the earth is 10000 years old only. its fun talking to him because i love laughing at stupid people. but by all means, if someone feels this is true id love to see some arguments for this.The bible was written by men. See below for a more detailed explanation.

In many instances religion leads to this

story : (http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/187655.php)http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/187655.php
Let he without sin cast the first stone. ;)

not all christians believe this
For the most part, they don't believe that the Bible is infallible. When I was one I had only actually read the entire bible once.

then why would you be christian? its the bible that says jesus is the son of god. if you dont believe the bible is true, why would you believe just one claim that it makes? why would you stem all your beliefs from a book of fiction, rather than scientific evidence. just more picking and choosing.
The bible was written by "divinely inspired" humans. Humans are fallible and since it was written and amended (new testament) it has been changed drastically by the Vatican and other parties to the the point that whole books were taken out. It's hard to believe that the bible is solid law with all these changes.


Religion, like medicine or knives, can be used for good or evil. It depends on the person practicing it and unless people force their beliefs on you at the point of a sword or the sharp edge of ridicule then they have every right to practice it.

Sadly enough, the other side of the coin is the same. Atheism is in and of itself all fine and good, but the moment you decide to sue a school because it allowed a kid to pray, or demand that students aren't allowed to wear crosses in school a line is crossed. People have the same right to practice religion as not, respect that right.

[Xin3]

LOL, because second life is the place where all the sheltered philosophical nerds live?

lol XD, in the video he talks about illusion and simulated related via our brains/sensory input which made the medium with which he presented his video very interesting, i think was the point XD.

[Xin3]

It is humanly impossible to be completely altruistic. You always do something for yourself whether it's for financial gain, or just a nice fuzzy feeling in your stomach.
Aside from that it's also very closed minded of you to think that everything a religious or spiritual people do is in "fear" of God as opposed to doing it for a God or to simply make that person happy.

The bible was written by men. See below for a more detailed explanation.


Let he without sin cast the first stone. ;)


For the most part, they don't believe that the Bible is infallible. When I was one I had only actually read the entire bible once.


The bible was written by "divinely inspired" humans. Humans are fallible and since it was written and amended (new testament) it has been changed drastically by the Vatican and other parties to the the point that whole books were taken out. It's hard to believe that the bible is solid law with all these changes.


Religion, like medicine or knives, can be used for good or evil. It depends on the person practicing it and unless people force their beliefs on you at the point of a sword or the sharp edge of ridicule then they have every right to practice it.

Sadly enough, the other side of the coin is the same. Atheism is in and of itself all fine and good, but the moment you decide to sue a school because it allowed a kid to pray, or demand that students aren't allowed to wear crosses in school a line is crossed. People have the same right to practice religion as not, respect that right.

Sure people can believe what they want but would you want your child's time in school spent learning that the existence of the tooth fairy was an undeniable fact? Further more would you want your child to base his understanding of the universe centered on the preachings of this tooth fairy?

[LordChowder]

unfortunatly they dont. in the united states, we have a constitution that clearly states the important of separation of church and state. public schools are federal institutions, therefore school oriented prayer is not allowed, constitutionally. ON THE OTHER HAND, if someone feels they want to pray in a school, thats fine. however the school cant issue prayer time and such, or encourage it. the lawsuits filed by athiests werent "hey, some kid prayed in school, sue his ass" it was prayer initiated by the school, and its a public school. thats unconstitutional, and a very reasonable argument to make. the word god and such in our pledge and what not means very little to me, but technically, they do have the right to request it not be in there, after all, it wasnt always in there. if you want god in schools, do it in a private school.


and the bible wasnt written with any divine guidance, it was written by men. i just humor the argument at times. i do feel people that think god actually did have a hand in it, and take it literally miss some of the good lessons that can be learned from the bible. the stories, and just stories, have deep meaning that people should be able to learn from. why belittle the lessons the bible can teach by taking everything literally?

[Typhus666]

sorta. I think its stupid that you would go to hell for saying fuck alot. :/

[LordChowder]

sorta. I think its stupid that you would go to hell for saying fuck alot. :/

you wont. bad words are only bad because people think they are. if noone cared about the word fuck, it wouldnt be a vulgar term.

[Talorth]

sorta. I think its stupid that you would go to hell for saying fuck alot. :/

SHIT PISS FUCK COCK DICK VAGINA CUNT WHORE BITCH SLUT!

[Damarus]

It's kinda hard to take a book like the bible seriously when it is amended so much (from all accounts). As far as I'm concerned, it's a book of fables. That is all.

[Grog]

have gg

[Damarus]

your face has gg.

[LinnEva]

sorta. I think its stupid that you would go to hell for saying fuck alot. :/

was fuck even a word back then? is it in the bible? :o someone find it!

and Jesus said, Fuck you, worship me you pissants!

[Jadein]

Chowder of course i know you don't hate me because i'm a Christian <333 and believe me i understand all to well what you are saying. i don't disagree with all of it either. The only point i was trying to make was this ... We don't have to follow the Old Testament anymore because of Jesus. No i'm not trying to force anyone to think the way i do, but just to maybe show the reason why i believe what i do. With Jesus came a new covenant ... the law is no longer required of us.

[Grog]

your face has gg.
your mum has gg

[LordChowder]

GG's all over grogs face, AWWW NAW GOT SOME GG ALL UP IN HIS HAIR AND IN HIS EYE.

[Grog]

noes, my dignity T_T

[Craysh]

unfortunatly they dont. in the united states, we have a constitution that clearly states the important of separation of church and state. public schools are federal institutions, therefore school oriented prayer is not allowed, constitutionally.
Untrue. The constitution guarantee's that their will be no state sponsored/endorsed religion nor an establishment of religion by the government. Separation of Church and State is something that people say to get their way.
ON THE OTHER HAND, if someone feels they want to pray in a school, thats fine. however the school cant issue prayer time and such, or encourage it. the lawsuits filed by athiests werent "hey, some kid prayed in school, sue his ass" it was prayer initiated by the school, and its a public school. thats unconstitutional, and a very reasonable argument to make. the word god and such in our pledge and what not means very little to me, but technically, they do have the right to request it not be in there, after all, it wasnt always in there. if you want god in schools, do it in a private school.
Very true. If the school sets aside a time for prayer they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit. But if the student or teacher prays at lunch time they should have no say in it whatsoever.

and the bible wasnt written with any divine guidance, it was written by men. i just humor the argument at times. i do feel people that think god actually did have a hand in it, and take it literally miss some of the good lessons that can be learned from the bible. the stories, and just stories, have deep meaning that people should be able to learn from. why belittle the lessons the bible can teach by taking everything literally?
Their doesn't need to be a God to be divinely inspired ;)

[LordChowder]

Untrue. The constitution guarantee's that their will be no state sponsored/endorsed religion nor an establishment of religion by the government. Separation of Church and State is something that people say to get their way.

Very true. If the school sets aside a time for prayer they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit. But if the student or teacher prays at lunch time they should have no say in it whatsoever.


Their doesn't need to be a God to be divinely inspired ;)

separation of church and state is what makes us a free country. if this want the case, everyone in this country would be a christian, as the far far majority of political officials claim to be christian. if they were allowed to, they would make it our official religion. luckily they arent allowed to, and why should someone be shunned for wanted to keep their religious beliefs, and not wanting others to impose theirs onto them.

no lawsuits that i know of, or atleast any that made it to court were against someone trying to pray in school. youre allowed to do that, under the constitution. the school just cant be a part of it, other than giving the person praying free right to do so.

it isnt divine inspiration then, its just an inspired man.

[Craysh]

separation of church and state is what makes us a free country. if this want the case, everyone in this country would be a christian, as the far far majority of political officials claim to be christian. if they were allowed to, they would make it our official religion. luckily they arent allowed to, and why should someone be shunned for wanted to keep their religious beliefs, and not wanting others to impose theirs onto them.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
I.E. It can't establish/endorse a religion, or stop the exercise of it. The wording "Separation of Church and State" is nowhere in the constitution and makes the meaning completely different. They use the wording "Separation of Church and State" in arguments to disallow any kind of religious expression, including praying and crosses, from all government facilities (the cross thing and the prayer thing has come up for schools).

no lawsuits that i know of, or atleast any that made it to court were against someone trying to pray in school. youre allowed to do that, under the constitution. the school just cant be a part of it, other than giving the person praying free right to do so.
An atheist gentleman sued a school for allowing their students to pray before they ate. Allowing them too, not endorsing it. I.e. when they saw students praying they didn't do anything about it.
This was about a year ago.

it isnt divine inspiration then, its just an inspired man.
Yeah ok, I'll give you that one :P

[LordChowder]

did he win that lawsuit?

[Craysh]

Yes and No. The school settled, promised to disallow praying in the school as well as ban religious symbols (it was added, it wasn't apart of the original lawsuit but he) and got a hefty settlement.

[LordChowder]

yeah see thats crossing the line, but wanting no school oriented prayer, no god in the pledge etc is fair.

[Craysh]

yeah see thats crossing the line, but wanting no school oriented prayer, no god in the pledge etc is fair.
"God" in the pledge was added as an attempt to encourage a belief in God in the early 20th century as a propaganda tool to fight the communist anti-religious beliefs (at least the Russian one) and should have never really been there IMHO despite the argument that the nation was founded under God.
I really think that nobody should be able to tell religious people or nonreligious people what they can believe.

[Will]

If religion = believing in something without any discernable proof. Then no, I am not.

Religion = believing in a dogmatic, strict, and generally inflexible interpretation of a supreme being or deity, and your recommended relationship to said deity, without proof. Spiritual = knowing you are part of something greater that you can never be apart from. I am spiritual, not religious.

[Damarus]

It's interesting to find that one of the definitions for spiritual listed on dictionary.com is "of or belonging to the church". Not dissagreeing or anything with your interpretation of spiritual, but it was interesting to read that being spiritual could ever directly mean that you were christian (or whatever, I just assume that's what 'the church' is).

[MrsDemon]

I'm bacc, I'm a man of spirit thats it. A christian that has a open mind, that believes in God jesus and the bible but doesnt live it out day to day or word for word. I doubt things that tell me i started from a monkey or a cell but I wont deny what existed years before my time. I sum myself up and can not force or sum anybody else. I dont know what the truth is but I may be wrong or i may be right, I'll find out when I die. Either i'll meet JEsus/God/Boudah/That rasta God/Olympus/Hades/The DEvil/A new life as a animal or total darkness and be recycled back into the earth nobody knows until they go there.

[Talorth]

It's interesting to find that one of the definitions for spiritual listed on dictionary.com is "of or belonging to the church". Not dissagreeing or anything with your interpretation of spiritual, but it was interesting to read that being spiritual could ever directly mean that you were christian (or whatever, I just assume that's what 'the church' is).


Sprituality is a very confusing and often misunderstood thing. I think there are things of the human mind,body, and soul, that we do not understand that can have a mystical quality to it.

But I don't believe that things magically come poof out of nowhere.

[damme]

Religion = believing in a dogmatic, strict, and generally inflexible interpretation of a supreme being or deity, and your recommended relationship to said deity, without proof. Spiritual = knowing you are part of something greater that you can never be apart from. I am spiritual, not religious.

What is this greater thing?

[Damarus]

I doubt things that tell me i started from a monkey or a cell but I wont deny what existed years before my time.One word - babies :)

[Grog]

Religion = believing in a dogmatic, strict, and generally inflexible interpretation of a supreme being or deity, and your recommended relationship to said deity, without proof. Spiritual = knowing you are part of something greater that you can never be apart from. I am spiritual, not religious.
****DISCLAIMER**** NOT THE ABSOLUTE DEFINITION OF RELIGION, POSTER'S INTERPRETATION ONLY

when i see someone calling themselves spiritual (as opposed to and not part of being religious) i see someone who wants to distance themselves from a church that they see to be too strict, or maybe just some of the rules that they disagree with
****DISCLAIMER**** NOT THE ABSOLUTE DEFINITION OF SPIRITUALITY, POSTER'S INTERPRETATION ONLY

[Xin3]

I wonder, will religion keep redefining and revising itself in accordance with new scientific theories and evidence, until it's nothing more than a comforting collection of poetry and fiction, a tinge of sexual opression oh and this guy named jesus who wants you to love your neighbors?(nothing wrong with this, except when a fanatical sociopathic fundamentalist abuses the freedom religion has been given). The more responses i hear from you religious people, the more confused you folks appear to be (no offence XD).

"God made the earth in seven days or he didn't, evolution is the explanation for life or it isn't. You can't have half a belief."

If all your getting out of religion is moral literature than can't we do away with the supernatural-dogmatic-BS, put on some good music, get awe inspired hold hands, light a candle, look up to the stars, masterbate and live happily ever after?

[Damarus]

No... Why? Because I only just finished masturbating... I don't think Im ready to go again just yet.

[Xin3]

pffft weakling +++ kegel exercises.

[Xin3]

"
The bible (John 8:32)said "the truth will set you free."

Jack Nicholson (A Few Good Men) said "You can't handle the truth."

Gloria Steinem, with a nod to James A Garfield, said "The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off."
"

[Xin3]

poor kid =(

Another Christian Science Fair embarrasses itself (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/05/another_christian_science_fair.php)

[Xin3]

Sry, i just can't leave it alone.

Hey don't you think it's kind of cruel of the one true god not tell all the other poor suckers of different faiths that their headed in the wrong direction, or maybe god just doesn't give a shit about you even though he loves you - or he's pretty fucking racists. Or are there like many gods, and each one takes care of his/her's little group - lol, some of them seem to get pretty jealous of each other it seems - haven't more people been killed in the name of god than anyone else? Or maybe there really is only one god and he's testing you to pick the right one, what happens if u loose his test - do you burn for eternity in hell? Or is that considered Old testament passe'.

[Damarus]

I think, that you just have to be ready for when the goa'uld invade.

[Xin3]

I think, that you just have to be ready for when the goa'uld invade.
masterbate with me?

[Xin3]

i have now come to the conclusion that their is a god and he's a pretty big prick, and all this is for his amusement.

[Grindrolas]

i have now come to the conclusion that their is a god and he's a pretty big prick, and all this is for his amusement.
He's the biggest griefer of us all

[Xin3]

ok ok ok, so i get that most people don't take much of the stories literally from their particular religious text (speaking mostly about Christianity here) and just want to live a decent life and all, and I can see the appeal, the sense of community ect.. and although in my opinion you don't need religion for that, your life experiences obviously differ from mine and have lead you along that path. So it seems a lot of people use religion as a guide to love and peace ect..

So how many believe that the universe was created by God (e.g. first mover)?

[Will]

It's interesting to find that one of the definitions for spiritual listed on dictionary.com is &quot;of or belonging to the church&quot;. Not dissagreeing or anything with your interpretation of spiritual, but it was interesting to read that being spiritual could ever directly mean that you were christian (or whatever, I just assume that's what 'the church' is).

I was raised Eastern Orthodox and was actually an alter boy for several years. I could never understand why a perfect God was so petty as to NEED me to worship HIM. Then I found the answer, he isn't. Neither is she.

[Grog]

you can't claim to know any truth with concern to metaphysical matters, so your guess is as good as anyone's. you didn't find the answer, you made it up because it suited you. religion is highly personal in my opinion, you're not going to believe something (religious or not) if it doesnt suit you

[Will]

you can't claim to know any truth with concern to metaphysical matters, so your guess is as good as anyone's. you didn't find the answer, you made it up because it suited you. religion is highly personal in my opinion, you're not going to believe something (religious or not) if it doesnt suit you

But that is precisely what I claim...it isn't a guess, it is an understanding. It is a personal understanding (not faith, knowledge).

[Articula]

Religious No.

Spiritual Yes

[Craysh]

****DISCLAIMER**** NOT THE ABSOLUTE DEFINITION OF RELIGION, POSTER'S INTERPRETATION ONLY

when i see someone calling themselves spiritual (as opposed to and not part of being religious) i see someone who wants to distance themselves from a church that they see to be too strict, or maybe just some of the rules that they disagree with
****DISCLAIMER**** NOT THE ABSOLUTE DEFINITION OF SPIRITUALITY, POSTER'S INTERPRETATION ONLY
That's exactly why I call myself spiritual.

i have now come to the conclusion that their is a god and he's a pretty big prick, and all this is for his amusement.
My own personal dogma says that god won't interfere no matter what. What's the point of free-will if he can just swoop in and change everything?
That's like telling a hamster that he's free, then consistently nudge him towards his cage.

[Grog]

But that is precisely what I claim...it isn't a guess, it is an understanding. It is a personal understanding (not faith, knowledge).
could you please explain what it is you know?

[Will]

could you please explain what it is you know?

I understand that I am an eternal spirit having a human experience.

[Grog]

I understand that I am an eternal spirit having a human experience.
but how do you know this?

[Craysh]

but how do you know this?
As Einstein says: Energy cannot disappear.

[Xin3]

But that is precisely what I claim...it isn't a guess, it is an understanding. It is a personal understanding (not faith, knowledge).

What is a personal understanding exactly? I mean 2 + 2 = 4 (as far as I know), how this be true for some people and not for others?

[Xin3]

As Einstein says: Energy cannot disappear.

Conservation of energy and entropy.

The only problem I see with applying this to an understanding of your soul is that you don't have one. The soul/spirit ect.. is simply a manifestation of the complex simulation computer that is your brain. What evidence is there of a soul? If your saying it doesn't require evidence and or explanation, but is simply a personal truth, then again I ask you what is a personal truth?

[Xin3]

Also we can't pick and choose comments from Einstein that support religious beleiefs.
As i said before to Einstein, god/religion was his unbounded admiration for the mysteries and nature of the universe.

To quote Einstein himself....
"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

[Xin3]

So then my question here is that how can personal truth be used as an explanation for the creation of stuff, man the universe.. whatever, if it only applies to you?

[Grog]

i think the word truth is being thrown around when it shouldn't be. i think what is meant by personal truth is simply a personal belief. there is no way of knowing how the universe was created, or whether one has a soul, so it's up to a personal opinion or belief

As Einstein says: Energy cannot disappear.
lolsoul?

[Craysh]

What is a personal understanding exactly? I mean 2 + 2 = 4 (as far as I know), how this be true for some people and not for others?
Using that logic, 1 + 1 = 2, but at the same time 1 + 1 = 3 when assuming that the sum of it's parts are greater than it's components.

[Grog]

maths jokes are about as funny as chuck norris jokes

[Xin3]

Using that logic, 1 + 1 = 2, but at the same time 1 + 1 = 3 when assuming that the sum of it's parts are greater than it's components.

sure and this assumption is based on?

I see no reason why a working theory won't eventually be used to explain the creation of the universe, specifically what caused the big bang. I guess ultimately my problem with religion is that it's telling me not to even try, or perhaps i can try, but inevitably I'll run into some form of higher intelligence responsible for some type of design and i find this kind of restricting XD.

[Craysh]

sure and this assumption is based on?

I see no reason why a working theory won't eventually be used to explain the creation of the universe, specifically what caused the big bang. I guess ultimately my problem with religion is that it's telling me not to even try, or perhaps i can try, but inevitably I'll run into some form of higher intelligence responsible for some type of design and i find this kind of restricting XD.

It's actually a part of chaos theory. When two parts are placed together, their sum is greater than their individual parts.
An example is an old story from Canada:
In northern Canada, an ox pull was being held to determine who had the strongest ox. The winner pulled 9,000 pounds and the runner-up pulled just a few pounds short of that. The owners and old-timers who had witnessed the competition started to debate as to how much the two strongest oxen could pull if they were teamed together. http://www.smithfam.com/news2/clear.gif http://www.smithfam.com/news2/clear.gifThe wagers went down. Some bet 16,000 pounds. Another 17,000 and still another felt that they should easily pull double their singular efforts--18,000. When the two oxen were hitched together, they actually pulled over 26,000 pounds.So using Chaos Theory, the sum of the universe together is greater than it's separate parts. I was just having a little fun with your equation response :P

Oh yeah, it's a joke too.
Be careful when having sex, sometimes 1 + 1 = 3 :P

[Xin3]

It's actually a part of chaos theory. When two parts are placed together, their sum is greater than their individual parts.
An example is an old story from Canada:
So using Chaos Theory, the sum of the universe together is greater than it's separate parts. I was just having a little fun with your equation response :P

Oh yeah, it's a joke too.
Be careful when having sex, sometimes 1 + 1 = 3 :P

lol, ok i may have over looked the joke part XD, and ofcourse I am going to assume that your not joking with regards to the universe so i can rant ^^;.
mm good post, i had to actually think about this one. :grin:

I understand the theory and it's applications, because we cannot make infinetaly accurate measurements, any prediction we make will ultimately magnify such inaccuracies.

However it is also true that we can still make quantitative statements regarding apparently chaotic systems.

A map of a coastline will show many bays. However, measuring the length of a coastline off a map will miss minor bays that were too small to show on the map. Likewise, walking along the coastline misses microscopic bays in between grains of sand. No matter how much a coastline is magnified, there will be more bays visible if it is magnified more. Of course we can still use maps to get from point A to point B.

The sum, no matter how that sum is reached, of our physical parts can never be more than what it is or what it is capable of unless there is further external stimulation or an addition of matter. Anything contrary to that is purely perception... which is also just a product of hundreds of billions of neurons firing through trillions of synapses.

[MrsDemon]

One word - babies :)


Sorry Tired I meant to say a water based Micro organism. but im tired again so i'll once again speak shit

[Xin3]

XD Demon your sig makes me wanna run through the forest naked letting the wind rush past my balls :mrgreen:

Aside from that I though this was a particularly interesting read, and rather inspiring.

To Live at All Is Miracle Enough (http://richarddawkins.net/article,91,To-Live-at-All-Is-Miracle-Enough,Richard-Dawkins)

[Damarus]

My willy is both a penis and a cock

[Xin3]

this thread must not die

FUCK YOUR RELIGION U HEAR ME FUCK IT UP IT"S @SSHOLE WITHOUT VASALEINE OR ANY OTHER LUBE, FUCK IT SOO HARD YOUR DICK BLEEDS FROM THE CHAFFING, FUCK YOU, YOUR BELEIFS AND YOUR GOD AND MOST OF ALL FUCK JEESUS AND HIS BEARD.

[Grog]

whats with all the hate o_O

[Xin3]

I'm an angry atheist with no morals rawrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I'm fucking angry and I'll stab you in the neck rawrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rr :twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twis ted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted:: twisted:

[Damarus]

It is I, Captain Vegetable
With my carrot, and my celery
Eating crunchy vegetables is good for me
And they're good for you, so eat them too
For teeth so strong, your whole life long
Eat celery and carrots by the bunch!
Three cheers for me, Captain Vegetable
Crunch, crunch, crunch!!!

[CharlieM]

I think somewhere along the line, a lot of people had skipped the long post I had made at the bottom of page one, lest this tangent of morals and the human spirit / soul could of all been avoided.

Highly reccomend reading it...even if it is a creation of my own stubborn mind.

LINKY (http://themondrated.com/showpost.php?p=48287&postcount=5)

Anyway, heres some more reccomended reading.
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/wise.htm

This is a direct comparison of the faults and just outright henous acts of ignoance between what creationists beleive, and the actual science behind their beleif.

If you truly beleived the earth was made in 7 days, this site should wake you up.

Created by:
Donald U. Wise, Professor Emeritus, University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and Research Associate at Franklin and Marshall College, Lancaster, PA

[Grog]

fuck creationists, they give religion a bad name

[MrsDemon]

I no longer care, I will live day to day with my wine and liq's and my entertainment and cum on the world until the truth shows itself.

[ACB]

funny is how ppl pray to god if somethin bad is happening.... and they want everything to turn out good...well im not saying im a super believer but yes i do believe in god... u cant prove that there is no god and u cant prove that there is a god... so its up to everyone what to believe and what not =D

[MrsDemon]

yep thats why i shutted up in this thread

[Damarus]

It is I, Captain Vegetable
With my carrot, and my celery
Eating crunchy vegetables is good for me
And they're good for you, so eat them too
For teeth so strong, your whole life long
Eat celery and carrots by the bunch!
Three cheers for me, Captain Vegetable
Crunch, crunch, crunch!!!There is only one true god. Don't try to deny it people.

http://images.wikia.com/muppet/images/thumb/b/b9/Captainvegetable.jpg/300px-Captainvegetable.jpg

[Bonk]

I watched Stigmata does that count?

[Victis]

Dogma educated me more than Catholic school ever did.

[Grog]

funny is how ppl pray to god if somethin bad is happening.... and they want everything to turn out good...
i think it's islam that doesn't allow petitionary prayer, not 100% sure tho

[MrsDemon]

Boudah loves you

[BLACK]

Is that the black way of saying Buddha?

[Damarus]

The Dalai Lama is in my town atm. That cunt caused a massive traffic jam on the way home from work tonight >.<

[Grog]

rofl

[BLACK]

It's not as bad as when Bush comes to eat at the steakhouse about half a mile away from my house. It takes me about 5 times as long to get home. He comes like every other week. D:

[HooB]

It's not as bad as when Bush comes to eat at the steakhouse about half a mile away from my house. It takes me about 5 times as long to get home. He comes like every other week. D:

should bust a cap in his ass for delaying your browsing of themondrated

[Damarus]

Yeah I'd bust a cap for sure. It's only bush! I wouldn't do it to the dalai lama though coz yer, the wrath of buddha and all >.>

[HooB]

Yeah I'd bust a cap for sure. It's only bush! I wouldn't do it to the dalai lama though coz yer, the wrath of buddha and all >.>

Ye thosepacifists can get really nasty

[Damarus]

Lol I should try and find the vid where the monk holds a bank or something hostage with an automatic rifle... Not coz he wanted money, coz he was angry at the bank manager or something and wanted to talk to him lol.

[Talorth]

LOL

[MrsDemon]

LOL a nice convo over a ak47 and a few scared to death people

[Damarus]

Ahh my bad. He was holding up parliament lol, he wanted to speak to the Prime minister!

5ZJjSv-46Hk

[Grog]

what did he want to talk about??

[Damarus]

I can't remember, I saw it on an Australian TV show ages ago that explained it but whatever show that version of it is from doesn't :(

[BLACK]

D:

[Will]

It's not as bad as when Bush comes to eat at the steakhouse about half a mile away from my house. It takes me about 5 times as long to get home. He comes like every other week. D:

Now it all makes sense.

[MrsDemon]

aussies are 100% buddhist

[BLACK]

Now it all makes sense.


Yeah, we have sex.

[Tassles]

Anyone up to be proselytized?

[damme]

Funny guy on youtube (on religion) =)
http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell

[Xin3]

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1364,Christopher-Hitchens-and-Al-Sharpton,Hardball-with-Chris-Matthews

[BLACK]

Two of the stupidest people around today taking at each other. Perfect.

[Gafaton]

ok i read 3 pages and then got dizzy. so please excuse me if i repeat anything that has already been said.

Children believe in the tooth fairy and santa claus and the easter bunny. Adults know these characters do not exist...but it is an age old tradition that gets passed on from generation to generation nonetheless. Religion is the same exact concept. My dad told me that the only reason he had me believe in these characters was so I fit in at school, and knew what was going on when other kids talked about them.

Why cant the same concept be applied to God? God is just as fake as the easter bunny and santa. God is a tradition just like them. There are so many things wrong with organized religion, too many to list. Celebacy: wtf. why deny nature? seriously.

Obviously the catholic church has had a lot of issues stemming from imposing celebacy on their priests...yet this issue has not been addressed. Is it not obvious that these priests are actual human beings and have lust programmed into their psyche?
Look at the ritualistic nature of mass, in most forms of religion.

Yes I think religious people are delusional, and use god as a buffer to excuse their "sins" or "dirty thoughts". You can have morals without religion, and you're not going to spend an eternity in torture and brimstone if you dont believe in some imaginary man in the sky. Dont even get me started on islam...those people need to lighten up and live life for themselves instead of devoting 80% of their day to allah.

Religion is control...religion is fear...religion is terrorism. Why is it that a candidate for the american presidency cant be taken seriously by the people until he has proclaimed his faith in jesus? Baffling.

If you're a religious person, and dont know why you go to church...wake the fuck up...you've been brainwashed since you were a little child. The difference between atheists and theists is that an atheist decides for himself that god doesn't exist...and a theist is told that god exists...and that he better believe it or else.

[BLACK]

What if atheism is passed from generation to generation?

Celibacy in the church started for practical reasons, not for any spiritual ones. The church didn't want the priests passing on their land to their offspring, so they nipped it at the bud. No point arguing about religion; I'm not overly religious myself, I just hate to hear people bashing things they have no clue about (even though I love to do it myself).

[Damarus]

Then we wouldn't believe in false deities?

[BLACK]

YOU ALL ARE GOING TO HELL!

Just kidding, I agree with Gaf in that the church is complete bullshit, however I am open to the possibility that there is a god.


For the record, the church doesn't deny evolution, the hicks do.

[Pseudonymous]

Gi8m-0kOQKI

[Gafaton]

What if atheism is passed from generation to generation?

I'm sure there are cases where a child was taught to never consider the existence of god. And for the record my father does believe in god...so naturally it was not passed down to me. My point was that almost every atheist i know decided to be one on their own accord.

No point arguing about religion; I'm not overly religious myself, I just hate to hear people bashing things they have no clue about (even though I love to do it myself).

I went to a catholic high school. I was curious why there was such devotion to such a fantastic story...so i did lots of research. I hate to hear people making assumptions about the knowledge of others while being a self-proclaimed hypocrit.

[Gafaton]

YOU ALL ARE GOING TO HELL!

Just kidding, I agree with Gaf in that the church is complete bullshit, however I am open to the possibility that there is a god.


For the record, the church doesn't deny evolution, the hicks do.

I will be open to the possibility of a supreme being that somehow lives outside the bounds of natural law, when there is undisputable proof.

[BLACK]

I like how every atheist is also an overconfident asshole.

[Damarus]

It's like if some guy told you he had a pickle, but he couldn't show you said pickle. You'd be confident too if you were the guy who disbelieved the pickle, and rightfully so imo!

[BLACK]

There's no undeniable proof either way, so it's a pointless argument.


I do have a pickle. A very large pickle.

[Damarus]

You could look at it that way, but I'm a firm believer in something not existing without being proven - as opposed to something existing until proven otherwise.

I want pickle :(

[Gafaton]

I like how every atheist is also an overconfident asshole.

thats quite a generalization. Im not being overconfident...that would mean I'm being unreasonable. IMO, I'm being far more reasonable than the 90% of the world that believes in a higher power.
I am probably an asshole though...I'll give you that.

[Grog]

It's like if some guy told you he had a pickle, but he couldn't show you said pickle. You'd be confident too if you were the guy who disbelieved the pickle, and rightfully so imo!
but how do you even know the guy exists?

[BLACK]

thats quite a generalization. Im not being overconfident...that would mean I'm being unreasonable. IMO, I'm being far more reasonable than the 90% of the world that believes in a higher power.
I am probably an asshole though...I'll give you that.

That's true. I'm on the exact same page as you. Totally sick of the church and everything that goes with it. I just felt like prodding a bit and seeing what came out.

[Damarus]

but how do you even know the guy exists?Because he's standing in front of you talking to you? o_O

I can see/hear/touch him (if he lets me :o), so I'm pretty confident in his existance :p

[Grog]

so you just trust your senses do you
k

[Damarus]

You aren't going to make me believe that they are incorrect, and he doesn't exist. That's a lame argument used to provoke people into thinking too deeply into situations and confuse themselves to the point that they will believe anything that drags them out of their own confusion.

[Grog]

actually the point of my arguement is that you don't exist. so i win
nernerr

[Damarus]

......... Cunt.

[Xin3]

http://richarddawkins.net/article,1479,They-let-anybody-onto-the-faculty-at-Oxford-nowadays,PZ-Myers-Pharyngula

[Grog]

let it die xin, let it die

[Gafaton]

let it die xin, let it die

Religion needs to die imo. Its just holding us back...silly traditions.

[Grog]

yeah it's really harmful for people to want to love one another