Are you religious?

[Gafaton]

yeah it's really harmful for people to want to love one another

lol that is such a cop out. People can love one another without having to conform to a long list of fear-inducing rules. Religious leaders are able to drain people of the little money they have, because they have the fear of god as their weapon of choice. If you want to pray to some mystical all powerful being...pray to the sun...you dont have to go to some intimidating room full of reminders of what they say happens to you when you dont follow their rules to worship the sun....just live.

[Grog]

why not just get rid of these evil leaders who use religion to "drain people of money"?
why look down on others just because thier religion doesn't work for you?
maybe what you find to be intimidating is to others comforting
show some empathy, and let others live how they choose

[Gafaton]

why not just get rid of these evil leaders who use religion to "drain people of money"?
why look down on others just because thier religion doesn't work for you?
maybe what you find to be intimidating is to others comforting
show some empathy, and let others live how they choose

You cant get rid of powerful people..they are untouchable. The church systems around the world are untouchable. Its not like im shunning one religion...I think they're all nonesense. If I went to church every weekend to pray to santa claus and to read about his wonderful flock...the elves/gnomes/whatever, you'd think I was insane. You're right, people are entitled to their own beliefs...but its my opinion however, that this ancient tradition is not helping us move forward as a species. You say religion is about love...yet more people have died in the name of god than for any other reason.

[Grog]

what you seem to be doing is taking the bad points of a few worst cases (evangelicals, fundamentals) and tarring every other religion with the same brush.
as for people dying in the name of god, that is an very brash statement. it is only these corrupt leaders that use religion and cherry pick scriptural teachings to convince people to kill eachother. i've heard atheists talk about religious people running away from thier responsibilities, but it seems that blaming religion for most of the world's problems is shirking responsibility yourself
i may be an atheist, but they get on my nerves some times >.>

[Gafaton]

what you seem to be doing is taking the bad points of a few worst cases (evangelicals, fundamentals) and tarring every other religion with the same brush.
as for people dying in the name of god, that is an very brash statement. it is only these corrupt leaders that use religion and cherry pick scriptural teachings to convince people to kill eachother. i've heard atheists talk about religious people running away from thier responsibilities, but it seems that blaming religion for most of the world's problems is shirking responsibility yourself
i may be an atheist, but they get on my nerves some times >.>

Of course there are varying degrees of fundamentalism, but what I'm saying is every person that goes to church is basically paying these con artists (some with money, some with time) to read them a glorified comic book....but the catch is, they actually shape their lives around this comic book; and make serious decisions based on what it says. My point is, that this mind set is hurting people more than its helping them because they turn a blind eye to reality.

Here is what church teaches people...dont cheat, dont steal, dont murder, dont lie, etc and love one another. Dont all of those go without saying? Shouldn't these be obvious things to any sane person?

What religion does in reality, is create barriers between people. Look at all the orthodox religions...you think its ok for them to marry anyone they want? Fuck no. You go to hell if you marry outside your religion...the funny part is when people fuss about a protestant and a catholic getting married...they worship the same dude!

I love how they claim there is a separation of church and state too. Religion influences our foreign policy too...You think if there was a huge population of palestinians in America, in Hollywood and in the media that we would still be helping Israel with billions in arms? Hell no, we'd be supplying Palestine instead. Im getting off track here...I digress.

as for people dying in the name of god, that is an very brash statement. it is only these corrupt leaders that use religion and cherry pick scriptural teachings to convince people to kill eachother.

k...so they're still dying in the name of god...and you just admitted that they're delusional.

I've never been to church before, and I know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Basically...If you fuck with this person, they will probably fuck with you back. And who wants that?

[Grog]

Of course there are varying degrees of fundamentalism, but what I'm saying is every person that goes to church is basically paying these con artists (some with money, some with time) to read them a glorified comic book....but the catch is, they actually shape their lives around this comic book; and make serious decisions based on what it says. My point is, that this mind set is hurting people more than its helping them because they turn a blind eye to reality.
get rid of ALL religions based on some "con artists" in christianity? i still don't see how going to church and praying for those who are suffering and trying to help your community in the name of jesus is worse than just looking out for yourself. some of the most generous and pleasant people i know are devout christians. yeah really hurtful that is. just because it's an alternate way of accepting reality, doesn't make it harmful

Here is what church teaches people...dont cheat, dont steal, dont murder, dont lie, etc and love one another. Dont all of those go without saying? Shouldn't these be obvious things to any sane person?
personally i'd say this is because society has been shaped by religion, which was formed itself by the needs of a society.

What religion does in reality, is create barriers between people. Look at all the orthodox religions...you think its ok for them to marry anyone they want? Fuck no. You go to hell if you marry outside your religion...the funny part is when people fuss about a protestant and a catholic getting married...they worship the same dude!
this is interesting, because i live in a christian family (though i'm an atheist) and i have a perfectly good relationship with them, no barriers here. seems you've made a slight generalisation.
yes, a church community really just puts everyone in their own little bubble doesn't it. you're painting this picture of a fire and brimstone preacher or a fundamentalist muslim commiting honour killings. i'll admit they exist, but you cannot condemn all religion based on the wrong actions of a few

I love how they claim there is a separation of church and state too. Religion influences our foreign policy too...You think if there was a huge population of palestinians in America, in Hollywood and in the media that we would still be helping Israel with billions in arms? Hell no, we'd be supplying Palestine instead. Im getting off track here...I digress.
i'd agree with this too, but again you're talking about quite a select example. are you saying that because some evangelicals run your country, every little old lady who goes to the church or synagogue on sunday should stop and sit at home all day?



k...so they're still dying in the name of god...and you just admitted that they're delusional.
my point was that they're NOT dying in the name of religion, but in the name of the fundamentalist leaders that seek to use religion to further thier aims. if instead of religion it was turnips that held sway over much of a country, the bad guys would use turnips to control them

I've never been to church before, and I know that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Basically...If you fuck with this person, they will probably fuck with you back. And who wants that?
evidently you have never been to church before, but even if you had been it is not right to condemn ALL churchs and religions by such a limited impression

[Gafaton]

get rid of ALL religions based on some "con artists" in christianity? i still don't see how going to church and praying for those who are suffering and trying to help your community in the name of jesus is worse than just looking out for yourself. some of the most generous and pleasant people i know are devout christians. yeah really hurtful that is. just because it's an alternate way of accepting reality, doesn't make it harmful

I didn't limit this idea to just Christianity... IMO, there are problems with all religions. I meerly used it as an example. Religion keeps the world from unifying and moving forward with real issues...like coming up with renewable resources, sustaining the species...silly stuff like that. "Praying for those who are suffering"...come the fuck on..."I hope they'll be alright!!" I suppose its the thought that counts right? The vast majority of people that pray for people suffering go home right after that and plop down in front of their TV and watch infomertials...few do anything to actually help; And its not because of religion...its because someone close to them, whether it be family or friend is suffering.


personally i'd say this is because society has been shaped by religion, which was formed itself by the needs of a society.

It was formed as a way to control the people...which in that time period, it could be argued that it was indeed needed....but that was thousands of years ago...is it really needed anymore? People are holding on to dangerous and hateful traditions. Not all are, but more than enough to warrant a massive cultural shift.


this is interesting, because i live in a christian family (though i'm an atheist) and i have a perfectly good relationship with them, no barriers here. seems you've made a slight generalisation.
yes, a church community really just puts everyone in their own little bubble doesn't it. you're painting this picture of a fire and brimstone preacher or a fundamentalist muslim commiting honour killings. i'll admit they exist, but you cannot condemn all religion based on the wrong actions of a few

Lol...they're your family, I think we can all agree that there is a different kind of love and acceptance within a family...I'm talking about different religious sects. Yes, religious ideals do put people into bubbles. Look at Ireland...look at Israel/Palestine...they're all the same people...yet they kill eachother for god. There are certain churches within christianity that do allow anyone to come in, and do as much as they can for the community, so you're right when it comes to that small % of people. As far as other religions are concerned, I've seen them take care of their own, and thats it. Look at the big picture though... What I'm trying to say is that god causes more harm than good, as a whole...therefore, its not working. Celebacy for catholic priests? not working...so they just pay out $600 million, and the sins are washed away, and no one bats an eye.


i'd agree with this too, but again you're talking about quite a select example. are you saying that because some evangelicals run your country, every little old lady who goes to the church or synagogue on sunday should stop and sit at home all day?

Well, boredom is a killer thats for sure. If church didn't exist, what would they do? Probably play bridge and watch TV...its what they do 99.9% of their time anyway. Doesn't that seem a bit wrong to you as well? That extremist christians do happen to run this country? Again, its gotta go.


my point was that they're NOT dying in the name of religion, but in the name of the fundamentalist leaders that seek to use religion to further thier aims. if instead of religion it was turnips that held sway over much of a country, the bad guys would use turnips to control them

I agree, religious ideas are about as silly as following a vegetable. Any behavior that causes you not to think for yourself is damaging to the free will that every human is born with.


evidently you have never been to church before, but even if you had been it is not right to condemn ALL churchs and religions by such a limited impression

I can agree with this. Some churches do a lot for their communities. So my generalization was wrong. Honestly this discussion isn't going anywhere...we both have our opinions, and nothing either of us say will change that.

[Damarus]

The thing is... Do all the nice people in the world who are followers of a church/religion or work for a church/religion, and do great things for the community only do so because of religion? Are we saying they would not be nice people if there was no religion? Is charity only conducted by religious people?

Maybe theres a few that this is true for, but I don't believe it's right in that case that they only feel the need to do good deeds because they are living in fear of god or hell or something... Other than that I don't believe it's religion that creates good people.

[Grog]

by the same token, religion doesn't create bad people

[Medicalelf]

I think sometimes they do Groq, hmmm they take advantage of some people and use their power to control people :(. But I honestly, I miss church. I have never attended a Holy mass for like 8 years now :(....more likely I miss the songs :D

[Gafaton]

by the same token, religion doesn't create bad people

Cant this be said for any organization? Red Cross probably doesn't create bad people...unless they're somehow only doing it to make money. (which I doubt).

[Damarus]

For the love of god it's a 'G'.

[Gafaton]

For the love of god it's a 'G'.

Right, sorry. Gafaton

[Damarus]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh I meant Grog :p

[Grog]

Cant this be said for any organization? Red Cross probably doesn't create bad people...unless they're somehow only doing it to make money. (which I doubt).
how is this a counterpoint? o_O
also how can i change my username from Grog to GROG >.>

[Gafaton]

how is this a counterpoint? o_O
also how can i change my username from Grog to GROG >.>

You were trying to say that religion is good because its influence supposedly doesn't make people bad. I was saying that that can be said for any institution that is formed with good intentions...amnesty international for instance, and as I already pointed out, the red cross...how bout salvation army? Although that has a religious name, it claims no affiliation. So basically..people dont need god to be good people.

[Grog]

polly's point was that religion didn't create good people, i was simply saying that it doesn't create bad people, so his point was no reason to get rid of religion

[Gafaton]

polly's point was that religion didn't create good people, i was simply saying that it doesn't create bad people, so his point was no reason to get rid of religion

So religion just cancels the 2 out? :p

Im pretty much done discussing this issue with you because we've both turned to translating eachothers words into very specific meanings to suit our respective points.

The remaining facts are that powerful people use religion as mind control, while others use it to give their lives meaning. So its really an endless argument because there is no fact in faith...there is no definitive answer. But doesn't that make you stop and think..hmmm...maybe its designed to be like that?

[BLACK]

It's a disappointing thought that God is just a puppet with a bunch of hypocritical old men holding his strings.

[lilcookie]

I feel the need to contribute to this thread
http://xenufights2.ytmnd.com/

[Gafaton]

It's a disappointing thought that God is just a puppet with a bunch of hypocritical old men holding his strings.

Gods just an idea that carries a LOT of weight...and people listen, and automatically give you respect when you claim to speak "gods words". Just look at our political races for higher offices....Can you imagine how fast a candidate would be written off if he/she said they didnt' believe in god?

[BLACK]

Yeah, so much for separation of church and state, eh?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5845/christianityop9.jpg

[Gafaton]

Yeah, so much for separation of church and state, eh?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5845/christianityop9.jpg

stew, if you keep talking like this....you're going straight to HELL. Now stop thinking, and pray.

[BLACK]

Oh fucking god, you should meet my cousins. They are the most BRAINWASHED kids ever. It's fucking sad, they have 9 kids and want more, even though they have a shit job and can't support them. One of them is HUGE and tells kids at his school they are going to hell, and they can't do anything about it because he's so fucking huge. It's so ridiculous.

[Infamous]

Thankfully neither of my parents tryed to force the church on me, because if they did I would have to kill them. :/

[Damarus]

I can't tell you how many people I've had to kill because they preached about god to me :(

[Grog]

anyone ever had Jehovah's witnesses come knocking? i've never had the pleasure

[Alrus]

anyone ever had Jehovah's witnesses come knocking? i've never had the pleasure

I did, my dog bit them and they never came back since then...

[Damarus]

I have done, and other religious groups trying to get me to join them, or letting me know that the end of the world is coming and other shit like that, but haven't lately.

I think the fact that I started answering the door as close to naked as possible (ie. boxers or a towel) started to deter them. They are normally nice people and all (and occasionally you might get a hot female one), but it's a total annoyance having to waste your time listening to them preach... I used to just pretend to listen for a couple of mins, take whatever pamphlets they had and tell them I was busy and would definately read it later, then close the door. I could never be rude and tell them to just fuck off, I know I'd hate it if it happened to me all day :(

[damme]

I just used to tell them I'm not interested but now I have this peek hole in my door so I don't open to strangers unless there's an appointment or something.

[BLACK]

My lovely mother chased a JW down the street with a fucking dustpan.

[Talorth]

I have done, and other religious groups trying to get me to join them, or letting me know that the end of the world is coming and other shit like that, but haven't lately.

I think the fact that I started answering the door as close to naked as possible (ie. boxers or a towel) started to deter them. They are normally nice people and all (and occasionally you might get a hot female one), but it's a total annoyance having to waste your time listening to them preach... I used to just pretend to listen for a couple of mins, take whatever pamphlets they had and tell them I was busy and would definately read it later, then close the door. I could never be rude and tell them to just fuck off, I know I'd hate it if it happened to me all day :(

/move to Perth
/pretend to be a jehovah
/knock.

[Infamous]

I've watched people come up to my house, and hear the usual thunderstorm of ruckus going on in side, and decide against knocking on my door. <3 having a crazy family.

[Gafaton]

I had a debate once with a JW. I asked him why they go door to door to recruit members when no other major church has to do that to gain members. His explaination was given to me as if he had just been repeating something that was drilled into his brain over and over and over, like a person that had been interrogated by the CIA. I dont doubt that some of them are truly passionate about their faith...but I think the majority of them turn to church because they dont have a role model, dont have a direction. Those in charge of these institutions, like I said before, take advantage of people like these that have no direction. God is a pretty hard sell to people fortunate enough to have rational thought processes. If you notice, its always the people that are "saved" or that "find god" that are the most extreme in their beliefs. The ones that are taught from birth about god are usually pretty normal, they just live a little bit outside reality....which is fine if it keeps them comfortable. And you cant really blame them either, they dont know any better. :/

[BLACK]

I don't see how any rational person could believe in God. All the adjectives used to describe him in the Bible contradict each other. For example, in the same sentence, it calls him just and infinitely merciful...

[Gafaton]

I don't see how any rational person could believe in God. All the adjectives used to describe him in the Bible contradict each other. For example, in the same sentence, it calls him just and infinitely merciful...

Well the way a rational person believes in god is if they're taught from birth, the same way a racist person is taught intolerance from birth. Both can change...a racist person can learn acceptance, and a religious person can change their beliefs. If there is a god, that has some amazing plan for every single person...he sure as hell has some fucked up plans for some really fucked up people. Besides...if god really did exist, why would we be able to doubt that existence, wouldn't giving us free will go against his perfect plan? I guess it can be argued that there is form in chaos...but I just dont buy the whole plan thing...fate is an illusion, there are too many what-ifs to justify fate and faith.

[Grog]

ugh... just because you don't buy it, doesn't mean everyone that does is a literalist psycho who believes the world was created in six days. show a little empathy instead of looking down your nose at people, your guess is as good as thiers

[Gafaton]

ugh... just because you don't buy it, doesn't mean everyone that does is a literalist psycho who believes the world was created in six days. show a little empathy instead of looking down your nose at people, your guess is as good as thiers

I didn't mention any bible literalists...just simply those that believe in god.

Sure people are entitled to their beliefs...they look at me and think im going straight to hell to burn for an eternity for denying His existence...Empathy is earned my friend and it goes both ways.

We just might have a designer, a species far older than ours that is running a grand experiment, the dinosaurs were their first. Makes sense doesn't it? I think that theory makes more sense than an all powerful being that set off the chain of events that created the first microbe.

If you think religion isn't mass brainwashing...other mediums have copied it. Any idea how many hours people sit in front of the TV watching mind-numbing reality shows, when in fact, they couldn't be farther from reality? The same idea applies.

[Grog]

aah right so any deist is being brainwashed. i suppose in american culture the church is so fierce that noone raised outside of christian teachings would ever entertain the idea of there being a god of some kind. i suppose that's an advantage of the laxity of the CoE =P

[Talorth]

Haven't parishes, ministers, and whatnot come under fire for the issues surrounding child molestation? It's not so much that in and of itself, but the way that they handle it, instead of a severe penalty its a slap on the wrist.


I've never understood why some Roman Catholics have such a problem with homosexuality.

[Talorth]

ugh... just because you don't buy it, doesn't mean everyone that does is a literalist psycho who believes the world was created in six days. show a little empathy instead of looking down your nose at people, your guess is as good as thiers

I don't speak for Christians, or any of the denominations therein. However, I find it odd that some consider one is without morals without the Bible. Yet, to pick and choose what is right and wrong with the bible, and then use it for a moral background... Isn't that wrong? Do we pick and choose what laws to follow? It doesn't make sense to be one way, then come under fire for it and declare it the other way around.

I'm all for personal interpretation for the meanings within the Bible. But it is looked upon in a way that it shouldn't be. It is a work of fiction, perhaps with some historical truths. But those are far and few between. People bawk at aboriginal stories, yet they are in the same categories as the stories in the Bible. That is being a hypocrite.

Why is it that contraceptives are considered so immoral. To the point where the Bush administration would consider cutting them from foreign aid? Spreading peace and love I guess?

[Grog]

I've never understood why some Roman Catholics have such a problem with homosexuality.
because the catholic church, compared to other forms of christianity, focus more on scripture (the bible) and my bible says gays is nono. it'd look bad if they changed thier mind now

I don't speak for Christians, or any of the denominations therein. However, I find it odd that some consider one is without morals without the Bible. Yet, to pick and choose what is right and wrong with the bible, and then use it for a moral background... Isn't that wrong? Do we pick and choose what laws to follow? It doesn't make sense to be one way, then come under fire for it and declare it the other way around.
now i'm getting into something i'm not well versed on, but i think most of the nasty little pernicity rules are in the old testament, so they can just default to jesus' new law in the new testament. but then i don't know which laws are stated where, or which ones you are referring to. as for people believing morality can only come from the bible is also very wrong in my opinion. it seems the only way fundamentalists can defend thier position is to be able to change thier minds and claim otherwise =P

I'm all for personal interpretation for the meanings within the Bible. But it is looked upon in a way that it shouldn't be. It is a work of fiction, perhaps with some historical truths. But those are far and few between. People bawk at aboriginal stories, yet they are in the same categories as the stories in the Bible. That is being a hypocrite.
i agree totally, but it isn't looked upon in that way by all christians

Why is it that contraceptives are considered so immoral. To the point where the Bush administration would consider cutting them from foreign aid? Spreading peace and love I guess?
again fundamentalists. you've got too many over there it seems

[Talorth]

Yet they changed their mind about alot of other things within it.

[Grog]

yep, i'm definitely not defending fundamentalists

[MrsDemon]

I believe in christ and jesus and the bible, but i think the religions are fucking retarded based on the humans who are in charge. i rather read the bible and live my life like a monk

[Talorth]

i agree totally, but it isn't looked upon in that way by all christians


again fundamentalists. you've got too many over there it seems


For both these comments I can say... yes, absolutely. We do have too many fundemenatlists here.

[Grog]

I believe in christ and jesus and the bible, but i think the religions are fucking retarded based on the humans who are in charge. i rather read the bible and live my life like a monk
what fun does a monk have?
nun

[BLACK]

Using the Bible for any argument is retarded, considering the fact that it can be used more or less for any argument.

[Damarus]

A long time ago, in the Dreamtime, before there were men or animals, plants or any other thing, there was the Rainbow Serpent which was the mother of us all.

She moved around in the darkness before there was the sun and the moon in the sky, and created mountain ranges, and deep channels where her great body wound its way.

Where she thrashed her tail great rifts appeared, and there were great hollows where her body had lain sleeping.

After a time, the Rainbow Serpent decided that it was time to create life for the world. So at the place called Uluru, she gave birth.

She gave birth to the Frog tribe and the Kingfisher tribe. But the Kingfisher people

couldn’t see to fly and the Frog people didn’t have any water to live in.

The Rainbow serpent told the Kingfisher people what they must do. The Kingfisher flew up into the sky and shot down at the Rainbow Serpent’s head, splitting it asunder with his long, sharp beak.

Out of her stomach leaped all the animal tribes of the world, and all the spirit beings.

The sun leaped up into the sky to light the world for the tribes, and the moon jumped up to take his place in the night sky.

The Frog tribe started singing with delight as the blood of the Serpent flowed out of her body and into the channels cut by her travels, and into the deep chasms to become the sea.

The vibrant rainbow-coloured scales of the Serpent flew up into the bright sky to become a flock of rainbow lorikeet tribe, and the image of her colours was left on the sky as the rainbow, the reminder to all the tribes of their common mother.

[damme]

I believe in christ and jesus and the bible, but i think the religions are fucking retarded based on the humans who are in charge. i rather read the bible and live my life like a monk

But the bible is written by humans.

[Gafaton]

But the bible is written by humans.

yeah, but they were just recording the words of god right? I really wish I had a pen and paper the last time god spoke to me...would have made a great story.

[Infamous]

George carlin pretty much dominates modern religion as best as anyone could, when Im not so lazy ill post the youtube videos.

[Grog]

fucking atheists ><

[Gafaton]

fucking atheists ><

I prefer realist. An antheist is defined as someone trying to prove god doesn't exist...which is silly of course, because something like that cant be proven...which is part its power as an idea. It's kind of funny how related religion and science can be in some respects. Look at string theory...it really takes a lot of faith to believe in something like that...The only difference I see is that string theory is viewed as just that, a theory. Religion on the other hand has a similar term that is commonly defined incorrectly...faith.

[Grog]

actually an atheist is someone who believes that there is no god. i take it you don't believe in god (it'd be a nice twist if you did =P) so you are an atheist.
i'm just a self hating atheist

[Gafaton]

actually an atheist is someone who believes that there is no god. i take it you don't believe in god (it'd be a nice twist if you did =P) so you are an atheist.
i'm just a self hating atheist

Theres the contextual use of words again...you're a pro at that. I guess I take part in that practice as well. Fine, you want to define me as an atheist, thats ok...All I'm saying is that the atheists I know, and the more popular ones I've seen on tv are all pretty bent on proving god doesn't exist....which is impossible. My view is that it is highly probable that god doesn't exist, but there is no way to know for sure. Likewise, there is no way to prove that god does exist....so we're still stuck.

[Grog]

well you can hardly blame them for trying to support their own beliefs =P
i'd also say it's more trying to present evidence against god's existence (like shooting fish in a barrel imo) but i doubt any of them would claim that they could prove it.
i suppose you're a 'weak' atheist, not sure if that's the actual term tho

[Gafaton]

well you can hardly blame them for trying to support their own beliefs =P
i'd also say it's more trying to present evidence against god's existence (like shooting fish in a barrel imo) but i doubt any of them would claim that they could prove it.
i suppose you're a 'weak' atheist, not sure if that's the actual term tho

fair enough. LianLi can prove Zelaton is a bitch though.

[Grog]

he just has to show people his zerpes

[Infamous]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uBAPbOWLxc
Carlin > Religion.

[damme]

Agnostic?

[Grog]

fuck carlin

[Infamous]

Fuck you.

[Grog]

fuck your atheism

[Talorth]

I fucked both your dads.

[Gafaton]

I fucked both your dads.

My dad fucked your mom.

[Talorth]

Everybody fucked everybody. The end.

[Grog]

fuck

[Xin3]

Beyond Belief : Enlightenment 2.0

http://thesciencenetwork.org/BeyondBelief2/

[BLACK]

well you can hardly blame them for trying to support their own beliefs =P
i'd also say it's more trying to present evidence against god's existence (like shooting fish in a barrel imo) but i doubt any of them would claim that they could prove it.
i suppose you're a 'weak' atheist, not sure if that's the actual term tho

The term is actually Soft Agnostic.

[Grog]

there are lots of terms. i forgot what i was talking about in that post, but i think it would still be some form of atheism, as opposed to agnosticism

[Xin3]

good stuffz
http://www.samharris.org/site/debates/

[Grog]

didn't watch much, but the god guy raised an interesting point that science cannot define it's own place in society

[Xin3]

true, and I don't wanna come across as "I only beleive in science", although I'm not sure how this increases any religion's credibiity ; Science has brought us technology, thats a good thing imo XD.

What i like about Sam Harris is that he is willing to explore "spirituality", and i use the term loosely, minus all the dogmatic BS.

And he has lots to say about the term atheism. There's no name assigned to kids who don't believe in Santa Claus, and there's no name for people who don't believe in Joe Pesche, and thus there shouldn't be a name for people who reject traditional religions. All of us are "atheists" with respects to the other guys religion.

[Grog]

so what, atheists can no longer be called atheists?

[Tengil]

I like being an atheist. I like calling myself an atheist.

Not believing in Santa Clause or Joe Pesche is something completely different... (Well Santa is as real as Jesus..)

[Gafaton]

I like being an atheist. I like calling myself an atheist.

Not believing in Santa Clause or Joe Pesche is something completely different... (Well Santa is as real as Jesus..)

Santa is as real as God you mean. I can buy that Jesus was a real man, not a god. I think Jesus did a lot of good for a lot of people in a time of constant war and brutality...and thats why people wrote these stories about him. You guys ever play the game telephone? You have a bunch of people sitting around a circle, and the person that starts the game whispers a sentence into the persons ear sitting next to them. That person then repeats what they heard to the person next to them...so on so forth....if you have a ton of people playing, by the time it gets to the last person, the sentence isn't even close to what it began as. Now imagine a game of telephone that has passed through billions of ears and thousands of years...I give you, the new testament.

Why do we have to swear on a bible in a court of lawl? Do we honestly think that that is going to stop people from lying? Can you imagine the uproar if we decided to remove that practice? The fact that there would be an uproar is depressing.

What if we changed the name of Christmas to yearly-gift-exchange-day, or force-the-people-into-debt-because-you're-a-cheap-ass-if-you-dont-spend-tons-of-money-at-christmas-day.

Religious people have a different look in their eyes. I've tested my theory and been 100% correct. There is a spark missing, a dullness in their eyes. Its like they've got a curtain behind their eyes. Try it sometime. Look at someones eyes and you can tell right away.

[BLACK]

black you suck

[Demon]

O wow

[Grog]

would be this thread to lure gaf back =P

Why do we have to swear on a bible in a court of lawl?
jej (not being a grammar nazi, just thought it was a funny mistake)
edit: or was it a mistake? you witty devil

Religious people have a different look in their eyes. I've tested my theory and been 100% correct. There is a spark missing, a dullness in their eyes. Its like they've got a curtain behind their eyes. Try it sometime. Look at someones eyes and you can tell right away.
ok. ill go talk to my anglican mum or my buddhist friend and check.
you can find anything in someone's eyes if you're convinced you'll find it

[Archaos]

I highly doubt you could tell i'm religious by looking at me.

or my eyes.

[BLACK]

dd

[Tengil]

black dont post that shit outside the nsfw-forum.

[BLACK]

No you suck.

[Xin3]

so what, atheists can no longer be called atheists?

unfortunately that would be impractical =(, but it's interesting, the fact that you have to give yourself a name for not believing in things for which natural explanations exist, almost like your putting yourself in a trap by giving yourself a label.

[Xin3]

didn't watch much, but the god guy raised an interesting point that science cannot define it's own place in society

[/rant on]
After some thought, i would say that the role of science in society is too free us from the natural laws that govern the universe. Every time we reduce something which on the surface seems immensely complex, progress follows (electricity + magnetism). If we make it, technology will eventually allow us to become gods ourselves. If religion requires us to believe things which are simply not true, how can it be an accurate description of anything other than subjective experience. Either the bible is literal truth or it isn't and it clearly isn't truth because we have to pick and choose what moral lessons we choose to organize our lives around. Burning witches at present is bad, loving your neighbor is positive, we're the ones who decide this. What I wanna know is why is god so elusive, and why does the bible contain examples of such bad morality.

We're tool makers, and the reason you build tools are for a specific purposes, you design them to accomplish goals which is probably why we see design and purpose where none exists. We think intentionally. (e.g. "the universe was made to have me in it, and so i reject the idea that I evolved in it", which is a completely erroneous statement)

The creator of the universe could have made a better book imho, with some mention of the internet, the version of string theory that describes our universe, warnings about the horrible addictions some online games can cause, tips on developing nanotechnology and maybe even femtotechnology or structured space-time, something on faster-than-light travel. These would be fucking interesting, instead we have some book containing 2 thousand year old morality with tips on owning slaves. I admit that religion was absolutely nessesary to elevate the worth of individual human life, but it's time admit to things we don't knowi, accept responsibility for our actions and move on.

The great moral debate of our times is wheather homosexuals should be allowed to marry, and thats just sad.
[/rant off]

[Damarus]

Daniel Jackson already proved that being a god of sorts, isn't all that it's cracked up to be. I mean how long was it before the ancients banished him back to the mortal plane.

[Grog]

unfortunately that would be impractical =(, but it's interesting, the fact that you have to give yourself a name for not believing in things for which natural explanations exist, almost like your putting yourself in a trap by giving yourself a label.
this confuses me
there are natural explanations for theism? the only one i could think of, from any standpoint, was intelligent design
but
..which is probably why we see design and purpose where none exists...
then you come out with this o_O

and sorry, i didn't read all of the second post, im too tired right now

and who is daniel jackson?

[Xin3]

this confuses me
there are natural explanations for theism? the only one i could think of, from any standpoint, was intelligent design
but

then you come out with this o_O

and sorry, i didn't read all of the second post, im too tired right now

and who is daniel jackson?

Sorry, that sentence was a little fucked up. I happen to think there are natural explanations for theism. For instance, in ancient times, organized religion would have been a source of in/out group separation, not to mention most religions claim to have answers to the big questions and it's easy to see why that would be an attractive trait... What i meant by that sentence, is that, for instance why do we need to invoke a divine creator to explain morality/the human eye/consciousness when we have natural selection and the computatonal theory of mind?

[Grog]

ooh by natural you mean sociologically natural. sorry, i took it to mean in the context of natural laws lol =P

why do we need to invoke a divine creator to explain morality/the human eye/consciousness when we have natural selection and the computatonal theory of mind?
this can be reversed
why do we need natural selection and the computational theory of mind to explain morality/the human eye/consciousness when we have a divine creator?

also, when does natural selection and the computational theory of mind explain morality? or is it just the boring nihilistic answer

[Xin3]

ooh by natural you mean sociologically natural. sorry, i took it to mean in the context of natural laws lol =P


this can be reversed
why do we need natural selection and the computational theory of mind to explain morality/the human eye/consciousness when we have a divine creator?

also, when does natural selection and the computational theory of mind explain morality? or is it just the boring nihilistic answer

hmm, well quite simply natural selection is testable. We can re-enforce it or falsify it through rigorous experimentation (and I beleive no evidence has been found to contradict it), whereas all science can do for religion is continue to not find the divine. Ofcourse we can invoke a divine creator as an explanation, but where's the evidence of one? A lack of evidence is not evidence of absence i understand but we have mountains of evidence to testify to the "fact" of evolution.

And as for the boring nihilistic answer for morality lol, I'm not sure i know it =/, although i could probably guess. I'll elaborate on this when i get home, about to be crucified for slacking @ work.

[Grog]

boring nihilistic answer = lol there's no god we can do whatever shit we want!

[Damarus]

Truth.

[Talorth]

Polarised has a big penis.

[Talorth]

Guys I just had a thought, it would be hillarious come 50 years from now we still hoppin around this forum... from the crazy LCD dash on our mopeds.

[Gafaton]

would be this thread to lure gaf back =P


jej (not being a grammar nazi, just thought it was a funny mistake)
edit: or was it a mistake? you witty devil


ok. ill go talk to my anglican mum or my buddhist friend and check.
you can find anything in someone's eyes if you're convinced you'll find it


Wasn't a mistake :p

Its hard to explain what I mean about the spark in the eyes. I dont mean that they're not intelligent, but they just have a different look to me...kind of like you can always tell when someone is a cop by the look in their eyes; because of what they've seen.

btw grog, way to take that quote of mine out of context for your signature...you accel at doing that.

[Demon]

Religion is fine aslong as you dont force it upon others. Aslong as we dont go killing people who wont submit then fuck it let religion be free. some people believe they gave birth to themselves, others believe in specific gods. others believe shit happens outta the blue. lets just all agree the human mind is far to advanced to settle with a universal idea. and now i wanna go eat some food

[ItsTreeSuhBitch]

I am!

[Medicalelf]

I am !

I miss church :D

[ItsTreeSuhBitch]

I hate Church I feel bad when i go because i only go to make my parents happy and i don't even listen all i do is think about how much longer till i eat jesus and then a good 15 mins after that im done! lol i can love god from the comfort of my own bed on a Sunday morning!

[Medicalelf]

I don't hate it but I don't like some of the people in the church though. It's the only place where I get to be at peace. It's very peaceful out there, that's all I can remember of being religious. I like it because I get to be in peace

[Damarus]

You shouldn't be able to be in peace with religion should you? o______O

I thought it was a sin to have sex out of marriage and also get divorced and shit like that.

[Grog]

btw grog, way to take that quote of mine out of context for your signature...you accel at doing that.

i just feel it's part of mondrated history for me =P

[Talorth]

he always does shit like that. lol i liked the one with black though. "I don't know why I was wearing my pants, I never wear those."