Do you think this kid should have been arrested?

[Articula]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/360827,CST-NWS-essay27.article

Police Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge a Cary-Grove High School student with disorderly conduct, leaving several experts puzzled at an arrest based on such schoolwork.


Asked to write about whatever he wanted in a creative writing class, would-be Marine and honors student Allen Lee, 18, described a violent dream in which he shot people and then "had sex with the dead bodies.''
» http://media1.suntimes.com/nixoncds/image/042707lee.jpg_20070426_22_52_12_44-116-165.imageContent

Police on Thursday released portions of an essay used to charge Cary-Grove High School honors student Allen Lee, 18, with disorderly conduct.



• “As a teacher, don’t be surprised on inspiring the first CG
[Cary-Grove High School]
shooting.”

• “Blood, sex, booze. Drugs, drugs, drugs are fun. Stab, stab, stab, stab, stab, s..t..a..b...puke.”

• “So I had this dream last night where I went into a building, pulled out two P 90s
[submachine guns] and started shooting everyone, then had sex with the dead bodies. Well, not really, but it would be funny if I did.”
what do you think?

But then he immediately dismissed the idea as a mere joke, writing, "not really, but it would be funny if I did.''



A second disorderly count accuses Lee of alarming first-year teacher Nora Capron by writing that "as a teacher, don't be surprised on [sic] inspiring the first CG shooting,'' an apparent reference to Cary-Grove High.

Lee said Thursday he was "completely shocked'' to be arrested Tuesday for his essay, especially because written instructions told kids not to "censor'' what they wrote.

"In creative writing, you're told to exaggerate,'' said Lee. "It was supposed to be just junk. . . .

"There definitely is violent content, but they're taking it out of context and making it something it isn't.''

"I have no intention of harming anyone,'' said Lee, who has been transferred to an alternative school setting. "I miss school.''

Lee's father, Albert Lee, who emigrated from China 32 years ago, said his son has a clean academic and police record. He, too, insisted his son's essay was not threatening but authorities "drew a conclusion before the investigation. They didn't want to do the investigation.''

However, the father would not comment on whether he believed authorities acted quickly because his son is of Asian heritage, as was the Virginia Tech campus shooter.

Family therapist Michael Gurian, author of The Minds of Boys, said Allen Lee needs at least good counseling, but "If he was arrested solely based on those words, I don't see that as the most helpful course.''

Bernardine Dohrn, director of Northwestern University's Children and Family Justice Center, laughed when she heard the charge.

"You might want to talk to him, talk to his parents, but the criminal justice system seems to be the last thing you'd want,'' said Dohrn, a former Weatherman leader who lived for years as a fugitive.

Mike McInerney, former head of the Cook County Public Defender's Juvenile Court office, said he "wouldn't be happy'' if his son wrote such words but "I wouldn't criminalize free expression. . . . I don't think it's going to hold up criminally.''

Sorry about the formatting, copied and pasted directly from the website.

[Articula]

My thoughts are... Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I'm all for sitting this kid down and sending him to counseling. But arresting him is removing his rights as an American.

P.S. I'm not one that thinks counseling works in all cases, but I don't think it ever hurts.

[MrsDemon]

no but they should of just had him on a list. Just keep his name on file but not arrest him, If the arrest can hold even the slightest charge he can lose alot in his plans for the future

[Archaos]

Check out this kid that goes to my university.
He goes into a giant lecture with a ski mask and gloves and and sits there. Then he is suprised when someone calls the cops. Dumbass. My room mate was in the lecture.
http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2007/04/27/Metro/SkiMask.Incident.Results.In.Ban-2885066.shtml

[Gzal]

Reads like a bull shit knee jerk reaction to the VTech tragedy to me. The extracts were clearly in very poor taste but it's not worth an arrest surely? Freedom of speech and all that.

Lets face it, who doesn't dream about going on killing sprees and then engaging in a little necrophilia.

[Monroe]

I dont think this article is enough to tell if he should have been arrested or not. He is certanly lacking common sence for a high school senior. Just because she said "write whatever you want" doesnt mean there arent any limits. Certain things arent appropriate in a class asignment. But he should be under some kind of observation for sure, just because he sounds developmentally retarted.

The mask kid thing is total bullshit. I have also worn a ski mask to class before, because i have sensetive skin, and if its cold plus windy, I get wind burn on my cheeks. I usually take it off when I go into a building, but I dont see what the big deal is if he kept it on, if he is just sitting in class with a mask taking notes, I personally wouldnt be alarmed.

[Zebedee]

I'm surprised they still let Asian kids go to class after we clearly established it's Asian kids that kill people and not guns...

[Will]

My thoughts are... Whatever happened to freedom of speech? I'm all for sitting this kid down and sending him to counseling. But arresting him is removing his rights as an American.

P.S. I'm not one that thinks counseling works in all cases, but I don't think it ever hurts.

Free speech is being eroded from beneath our feet. See Imus. See the censorship of Rosie O'Donnel on the View. One of the main reasons of "sensationalizing" incidents like Va Tech is to use it to "fear" us into submission. Now we have a kid saying weird shit in a no holds barred essay, who looks strikingly similar to Cho, and he gets scooped up because, as we all know, it's better to be safe then sorry.

[Will]

I dont think this article is enough to tell if he should have been arrested or not. He is certanly lacking common sence for a high school senior. Just because she said "write whatever you want" doesnt mean there arent any limits. Certain things arent appropriate in a class asignment. But he should be under some kind of observation for sure, just because he sounds developmentally retarted.

The mask kid thing is total bullshit. I have also worn a ski mask to class before, because i have sensetive skin, and if its cold plus windy, I get wind burn on my cheeks. I usually take it off when I go into a building, but I dont see what the big deal is if he kept it on, if he is just sitting in class with a mask taking notes, I personally wouldnt be alarmed.

Actually, doesn't no limit mean no limit? A wise man once said common sense is not all that common. So, if teachers don't really mean no limit, then they shouldn't say it.

[Monroe]

I'm surprised they still let Asian kids go to class after we clearly established it's Asian kids that kill people and not guns...

get the fuck out, pussy

[Will]

Check out this kid that goes to my university.
He goes into a giant lecture with a ski mask and gloves and and sits there. Then he is suprised when someone calls the cops. Dumbass. My room mate was in the lecture.
http://media.www.dailyiowan.com/media/storage/paper599/news/2007/04/27/Metro/SkiMask.Incident.Results.In.Ban-2885066.shtml

That is just beyond stupidity.

[damme]

I'm so glad I don't live in the states.

[Articula]

Free speech is being eroded from beneath our feet. See Imus. See the censorship of Rosie O'Donnel on the View. One of the main reasons of "sensationalizing" incidents like Va Tech is to use it to "fear" us into submission. Now we have a kid saying weird shit in a no holds barred essay, who looks strikingly similar to Cho, and he gets scooped up because, as we all know, it's better to be safe then sorry.

I don't think the Imus thing applies here. He was fired because CBS was losing corporate sponsors. Thats different than a kid going to jail for what he said.

[Monroe]

Free speech is being eroded from beneath our feet. See Imus. See the censorship of Rosie O'Donnel on the View. One of the main reasons of "sensationalizing" incidents like Va Tech is to use it to "fear" us into submission. Now we have a kid saying weird shit in a no holds barred essay, who looks strikingly similar to Cho, and he gets scooped up because, as we all know, it's better to be safe then sorry.

What does Imus, or O'Donnel have to do with our constitutional right of free speech? Imus was fiered from a private company that had nothing to do with the government, because his sponsors dropped him. The right of free speech protects people from GOVERNMENT prosecusion for saying what you want.

[Monroe]

I'm so glad I don't live in the states.

Im glad you dont live here ether.

[Will]

What does Imus, or O'Donnel have to do with our constitutional right of free speech? Imus was fiered from a private company that had nothing to do with the government, because his sponsors dropped him. The right of free speech protects people from GOVERNMENT prosecusion for saying what you want.

It isn't a direct cause and effect per-se, but when someone gets fired for what they say, it sends a message that you can't say certain things. Hence, free speech is chilled. Imus was fired because CBS was losing sponsors because of what he said...so, in essence, he was fired for what he said. The View was actively censoring Rosie's statements on the view which is why she left. Again, not a direct cause and effect but the same result occurs. Free speech is chilled.

[Monroe]

It isn't a direct cause and effect per-se, but when someone gets fired for what they say, it sends a message that you can't say certain things. Hence, free speech is chilled. Imus was fired because CBS was losing sponsors because of what he said...so, in essence, he was fired for what he said. The View was actively censoring Rosie's statements on the view which is why she left. Again, not a direct cause and effect but the same result occurs. Free speech is chilled.

First amendment applies ONLY to government, i.e you cant be persecuted for speaking out your mind. It doesnt apply to private companies. Private companies can and do regulate what their employees say while they are on paid time, and they have been doing that since Constitution was written.

[Will]

First amendment applies ONLY to government, i.e you cant be persecuted for speaking out your mind. It doesnt apply to private companies. Private companies can and do regulate what their employees say while they are on paid time, and they have been doing that since Constitution was written.

No, technically, they cannot regulate what is said but they can control who stays and who goes. The end result is the same however. Funny how the constitution doesn't apply to private companies though.

[Monroe]

No, technically, they cannot regulate what is said but they can control who stays and who goes. The end result is the same however. Funny how the constitution doesn't apply to private companies though.

In some ways constitution applies, for example the companies cant fire you for the stuff you say when you are not at work, unless they can prove that what you said damaged the goodwill of the company.

[Will]

In some ways constitution applies, for example the companies cant fire you for the stuff you say when you are not at work, unless they can prove that what you said damaged the goodwill of the company.

Companies in most states can fire you for no reason whatsoever (employment at will). I think you would be hard pressed to find a company that didn't have the luxury of firing you whenever they feel like it and for whatever reason they decide.

[Monroe]

Companies in most states can fire you for no reason whatsoever (employment at will). I think you would be hard pressed to find a company that didn't have the luxury of firing you whenever they feel like it and for whatever reason they decide.

That is true. But if you SPECIFICALLY got fired for example if you voted for a different political candiate that the one that the company is supporting, hten yes that is illegal and the company can get sued.

[Will]

That is true. But if you SPECIFICALLY got fired for example if you voted for a different political candiate that the one that the company is supporting, hten yes that is illegal and the company can get sued.

And the chances of winning that lawsuit are slim at best. But you are correct.

[Monroe]

you are correct.


/win

[Talorth]

Let's arrest stephen king for making novels that involve people dying then.
(This person shouldn't be arrested, however they obviously need counselling.)

[Damarus]

What's a ski mask? Don't have snow down here so I know nothing about ski apparel...

[Zelaton]

What's a ski mask? Don't have snow down here so I know nothing about ski apparel...
http://www.toyarsenal.com/toy/skimask1.jpg

[Archaos]

visual aids ftw.

[damme]

You are a visual aid

[Damarus]

Lol I'm not surprised that wearing something like that would give off suspicion :p

[Victis]

Bad guys wear those in movies!

[Damarus]

The only time I've ever seen one of those in use, is on security camera footage during service station/convenience store roberies...

[Victis]

Bad idea to write something like that..

Stupid that he got arrested for it.. but honestly, show some fucking tact.